An hour after writing the last paragraph, the post went offline again, but I was able to capture all 3,765 comments before it vanished.)
LA Deputy DA Patrick Frey removed a June 30 post from his blog at www.patterico.com called "Weinergate: Someone Smarter Than Me: Explain Why This Is Not Possible" a few days after I noted some of the wild accusations he had made on Twitter.
"Everyone I spoke to at LA District Attorney's office was helpful & friendly; They are very concerned someone might be abusing his authority," I tweeted on November 9th.
It had 3,765 comments and can still be found in caches; I've also saved a few copies.
Here's some of it (with just the first 500 comments), and, in case anyone in the LA District Attorneys office have trouble finding the deleted threats which might constitute abuse of authority, I'll post the rest in future posts since it's too much to fit in one.
Part 2 contains comments 501 - 1800
Part 3 contains comments 1801 - 2500
Part 4 contains comments 2501-3000
Part 5 contains comments 3001-3765
I believe Fair Use permits me to repost this deleted post which defamed me, and I believe was pulled after I reported it to Frey's bosses at the DA's office.
You have reached the cached page for http://patterico.com/2011/06/30/someone-smarter-than-me-explain-why-this-is-not-possible/comment-page-109/ Below is a snapshot of the Web page as it appeared on 11/11/2011. This is the version of the page that was used for ranking your search results. The page may have changed since it was last cached. To see what might have changed (without the highlights), go to the current page. You searched for: someone explain patterico We have highlighted matching words that appear in the page below. Yahoo! is not responsible for the content of this page. |
6/30/2011
Weinergate: Someone Smarter Than Me: Explain Why This Is Not Possible
The person claiming to be “Jennifer George” who called Lee was a hoaxer.
There really was a person who threatened the real Jennifer George, and that person pretended to be Lee Stranahan.
That person hates Lee, and Breitbart.
I have been very busy and probably don’t know all the reason why this couldn’t possibly be the case. So tell me.
UPDATE: Point #1 could be wrong, and the theory still holds.
UPDATE x2: I’m feeling better about the theory with each passing second.
Hi, Neal!
Maybe Neal Rauhauser could come explain to me why this could not be possible.
Comment by Patterico — 6/30/2011 @ 8:51 pm
It seems like you are poking a very vile cretin.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 9:00 pm
Vile cretins sometimes poke others and assume they will not be poked back.
Comment by Patterico — 6/30/2011 @ 9:01 pm
“Vile cretins sometimes poke others and assume they will not be poked back.”
Patterico – I seem to recall several examples of such behavior here.
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 9:04 pm
Neal does have all kinds of charts at his disposal.
Comment by goatsred — 6/30/2011 @ 9:04 pm
So what about this theory?
Comment by Patterico — 6/30/2011 @ 9:04 pm
He is a pox on Champaign Urbana. And just generally a pox. A festering rectal fistula on the cornhole of humanity.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 9:07 pm
Very nice profile of vile cretin
http://theothermccain.com/2010/10/09/twittergate-update-neal-rauhauser-switches-account-to-protected-status/
Comment by goatsred — 6/30/2011 @ 9:07 pm
Could hear a pin drop.
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 9:08 pm
No one could find the real JG to threaten her.
Comment by Molon Labe — 6/30/2011 @ 9:11 pm
Is it just me, or does Neal look like Q in Star Trek the Next Generation?
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 9:13 pm
Is there a specific reason to suspect Rauhauser? Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t put this past him and his colleagues in the “Beandog” troll posse, but I’m just asking if there is any specific reason to suspect him.
Comment by Robert Stacy McCain — 6/30/2011 @ 9:14 pm
Interesting post, Patterico, But…
What does this mean:
Was a hoaxer means that that the person calling Lee was not Jennifer George? How do you know this? Do you know who this person is?
Regarding the “real Jennifer George” you refer to here; Is this the jenny George in Boston? Is this the Jenny George that set up the starchild111 account?
Oh yeah, do you know this as a fact? How?
Comment by lamchopsl — 6/30/2011 @ 9:16 pm
“No one could find the real JG to threaten her.”
Molon Labe – Correction – Nobody has admitted to finding the real JG to threaten her. A big difference that you and Lee cannot seem to grasp.
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 9:16 pm
Isn’t Neal the one that proved that Weiner was hacked by goatsred?
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 9:17 pm
12. He’s been very interested in Weinergate, Stacy.
Plus note his email to the California JG:
http://www.jennifergeorge.com/weiner.html
(scroll down … )
Why’s he so interested in what is a dead story, according to him?
Comment by Miranda — 6/30/2011 @ 9:19 pm
Who said they suspect Rauhauser? I just thought he might want to explain this all to me.
Comment by Patterico — 6/30/2011 @ 9:21 pm
If I were a betting woman I’d bet that someone who knows something (like maybe a known expert on Weinergate) is ratting out Neal.
Comment by elissa — 6/30/2011 @ 9:22 pm
Elissa – he is a Weiner expert.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 9:25 pm
Everyone is getting threatened these days. What’s the world coming to?
((((
Comment by Ms. Alicia Pain — 6/30/2011 @ 9:26 pm
18. elissa
Like maybe Ron Brynaert?
Ron has been accusing Neal Rathauser of threatening his family as of late.
Comment by lamchopsl — 6/30/2011 @ 9:26 pm
Preston called the CA JG a week before anybody else noticed the Jenay thing, right?
Comment by MayBee — 6/30/2011 @ 9:26 pm
elissa
Especially if that person had been receiving threats from Neal
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 9:26 pm
Elissa,
Threats like these from Neal: Ron’s tweets
Ron claimed Neal was threatening his family.
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 9:28 pm
I absolutley love the detective work you guys! In fact, I just got through watching an episode of Columbo with my wife. It was the episode with Richard Kiley, who plays the police chief who kills his wife after he covers for another neighbors murder. It was interesting in that most of the episode was filmed in downtown LA and Hancock Park, very little sound stage stuff. Coincidentally, it was directed by Ben Gazzara, one of Peter Falks(R.I.P.) best friends. What precisely are you trying to uncover with the emails?
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 9:29 pm
Lots of threats going around in this non-story. I wish we could find out who threatened Ginger Lee.
Comment by MayBee — 6/30/2011 @ 9:29 pm
15.Isn’t Neal the one that proved that Weiner was hacked by goatsred?
JD and Mr.McCain—Yes, and he proved ,or ,put me on the “short list, of people who he knows,stalked Rep.Weiner.
Comment by goatsred — 6/30/2011 @ 9:30 pm
Does Weiner still have people working on this story?
Comment by MayBee — 6/30/2011 @ 9:30 pm
Doesn’t Neal have Ginger Lee on his list too?
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 9:32 pm
28.Does Weiner still have people working on this story?
Comment by MayBee
No MayBee, his people are trying to figure out where the hell HUMA went to.Antonee cant buy gwoceries without her check.
Comment by goatsred — 6/30/2011 @ 9:34 pm
Wonder who threatened Patterico and Ace?
Comment by Ms. Alicia Pain — 6/30/2011 @ 9:35 pm
@goatsred Who leaked all that stuff to the Smoking Gun about you? Patriot?
Comment by Ms. Alicia Pain — 6/30/2011 @ 9:36 pm
Hey guys, gimme a little taste(a brief rundown) of all this “intrigue”. I am coming into this a little late, but I am genuinely enthralled. Sometimes I feel like a sly little elf, who should be sitting under his own private little toad stool. C’mon indulge me!
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 9:39 pm
I’m so confused I don’t know what I think.
It all stopped making sense after Weiner resigned. I can’t figure a coherent strategy for the sock puppets, even with three layers of mis-direction laid on top.
Since you propose a coherent theory for at least the answering machine death threats, I shall fall upon it with a glad cry and clutch it to my bosom.
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 9:40 pm
An excellent question, addressing my deep confusion.
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 9:43 pm
29. bmertz, yes, Ginger Lee, Meagan Broussard Mike Stack & the real person behind Dan Wolfe – if you’re referring to NR’s email to JG.
What Neal did on Twitter yesterday was refer to Ron’s family – as if they’d been talking to him:
“Your judgment is impaired, Ron. Friends & family have said as much to you.” and
“Your family is well aware of your distress, Ron.”
I didn’t see any threats. Just sounded to me as if Simon Sinister was deliberately screwing with Ron. I was reading his tweets after seeing his email to JG on her site.
Now he’s been tweeting about Twitter etc – he’s not his usual obnoxious self. Interesting.
Comment by Miranda — 6/30/2011 @ 9:43 pm
Miranda Neal or Ron is tweeting ?
btw, if anyone is interested about the nickname for Neal aka Simon Sinister
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 9:49 pm
There is no need for that.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 9:52 pm
Miranda
What do you make of this claim? Could Neal pull that off?
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 9:52 pm
Tamandua–see, it’s like this. Patterico has a lot of different sandboxes that people can choose to play in (or not play in) at his site. Not everybody is interested in every topic. You pulled this snarky crap on another thread yesterday, and trust me, you’re not as subtle or clever as you may think you are. You are welcome to avoid the “detective” threads you find so annoying. Nobody is forcing you to read about Weinergate if you find it all so terribly, terribly silly and amusing, you know. Or, is it an act to hide that you’re actually very interested in Weinergate?
Comment by elissa — 6/30/2011 @ 9:54 pm
#38 – Nasty. That’s just sick and stupid and wrong.
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 9:54 pm
Breitbart tweeted to Neal that he knew he was Dan Wolfe and that Neal should just go ahead and admit it.
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 9:55 pm
ah ha
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 9:57 pm
#41 – elissa – lovely smack down.
I’m reading as much as I can, and have decided that all I can do is plaintively ask if there’s a coherent story, yet. I wish I had any clues.
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 9:57 pm
I think Neal is trying to make his presence known
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 9:57 pm
Whoa! Really?!
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 9:58 pm
Hey, my friend, I am curious. I don’t enter this blog “bad-mouthing” people because they have an opinion different than my own. I try to practice charity, and though you may not approve of my somewhat off center posts, I like to think I am an interesting fellow, with something to share. I know you may not approve of me(for whatever reason) as you see everything as so dire, but trust me, lighten up just a little my friend, you may cultivate some friends down the road, (as difficult to fathom as it may seem, in your case).
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 9:58 pm
#38 – Nasty. That’s just sick and stupid and wrong.
It is a public record. It’s not sick, nor stupid, nor wrong.
Comment by Ms. Alicia Pain — 6/30/2011 @ 9:59 pm
Ron must have outed Neal
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 9:59 pm
37. bmertz, those were Neal’s tweets, about 2 pm or so yesterday.
http://twitter.com/#!/NealRauhauser
You can read twitter msg’s even if you don’t have a twitter account, bmertz. I don’t have one either. I think you had mentioned before that you didn’t have one.
Comment by Miranda — 6/30/2011 @ 9:59 pm
I think this is more germane question, is the Jen George in Boston who got the death threats, the Jenny George who set up the starchild111 account, used as Jenay for some time, and then changed the moniker to Nikki to punk A. Weiner’s twitter followers?
As far as I can remember the only evidence connecting the Boston Jen George to the Jenny George= Jenay=Nikki account is the Massachusetts accent Lee noted. I just checked Lee’s notes and there wasn’t anything else that tied the phone call to the Boston Jen George? It certainly is possible that the Call to Lee claiming to be Jenifer George was someone else trying to divert and discredit Lee. And to that end Lee’s caller may have also called the Boston Jen George and threatened her.
So I guess it is possible that the Boston Jen George is not associated with the starchild111 account, but for some reason was threatened by someone wanting to hurt Lee.
When Lee heard of the police report from the Boston Jen George, he appears to have jumped to the conclusion that she was the person who called him and was trying to derail his investigation by falsely accusing him.
Comment by lamchopsl — 6/30/2011 @ 10:00 pm
Oh, you may not think that was not wrong, but you would be wrong.very wrong. Aggressively wrong.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 10:00 pm
No Elissa, the only people in this hemisphere that are as remotley enthralled with the “tragic and pathetic” mumbo-jumbo you call “Weinergate” are you and a few other cybernerds!
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 10:01 pm
Tamandau – nobody is forcing you to read or comment, no?
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 10:02 pm
#48
It’s none of your business, you nasty little perv, nor anyone not needing to have the information for law enforcement or credit purposes, come to think of it!
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 10:03 pm
Miranda
Thank you. I think that is the link you gave me earlier. I did go to the link you gave me. Ron sounded so frantic that I copied all his tweets into one list, and posted them onto one of the threads here. He was also offering to give a tell-all DM to any major blogger that contacted him. It looks as though he contacted Patterico.
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 10:06 pm
It’s none of your business, you nasty little perv, nor anyone not needing to have the information for law enforcement or credit purposes, come to think of it!
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 10:03 pm
It is my business, the guy is tweeting some pretty outrageous stuff, his criminal record is a public record. I did leave out the address.
Comment by Ms. Alicia Pain — 6/30/2011 @ 10:07 pm
#48 Many things will be public record soon.
Comment by Crispian — 6/30/2011 @ 10:07 pm
I can and will comment, the fact that YOU don’t approve of me is irrelevant JD. Your friend Elissa took it upon herself to start taking swings, so she gets a “haymaker” back. Quid pro quo..
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 10:07 pm
yes, thanks for explaining (elissa too). I was missing most of the conversation happening off the blog. I appreciate the explanation.
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 10:08 pm
Alicia- what is he tweeting that you find outrageous?
Comment by MayBee — 6/30/2011 @ 10:08 pm
“Alicia” is yet another sick twist. Just like Rauhauser.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 10:09 pm
#48 Many things will be public record soon.
Comment by Crispian — 6/30/2011 @ 10:07 pm
Your point being?
Comment by Ms. Alicia Pain — 6/30/2011 @ 10:09 pm
Thanks for removing #38. Clearly posting stuff like that doesn’t help…but I suppose that’s the point.
Comment by Dana — 6/30/2011 @ 10:10 pm
Dianna and bmertz – I think I got Breitbart’s reference mixed up in #46 above. He was referring to Ron:
AndrewBreibart Andrew Breibart
@
@NealRauhauser @ronbryn robyn, we already know ur dan wolfe, enough with the sock charade.
29 Jun
in reply to ↑
Neal Rauhauser
@NealRauhauser Neal Rauhauser
@AndrewBreibart Beauty! Do another!!!
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 10:11 pm
Alicia = Neal
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 10:11 pm
I neither approve or disapprove. Elissa nailed you, and now you are predictably lashing out at everyone else. If you don’t like the topic, go on to the next one.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 10:12 pm
I deleted a comment that purported to post personal information for Ron Brynaert.
For some reason the whole thing reminded me of the way The Smoking Gun treated Mike Stack.
All public record to be sure.
Hi Neal!
Comment by Patterico — 6/30/2011 @ 10:15 pm
daleyrocks
AB is not sending it to Neal? It reads as though he is receiving it too. Or both?
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 10:16 pm
The Tamandua – Did you just follow your anteater nose to this blog? What brought you here?
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 10:16 pm
JD, I have caught your pathetic, mealy-mouthed little act on this and other blogs, you are a blight and crap stirer from way back. The only reason you hack on Yelverton so much is because he has twice the education and smarts than you will ever have. Your pathetic jealousy of him is almost embarassing to witness.
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 10:17 pm
Pat,
There’s nothing inherently impossible about your line, but it does seem a far less likely explanation. Why? Because it postulates unknown additional people, whereas Lee’s theory goes to one known person who had a motive to act as Lee suspects she did.
The most powerful piece of evidence on the table is Lee’s history of the starchild111 twitter account. That history demonstrate or strongly suggest:
(1) That the original creator of the account was the same person who later gave herself out as Nikki Reid
(2) That the creator changed the account’s appearance in an attempt to get to Weiner, including using the fake avatar.
(3) That the creator is older than Nikki gave herself out to be (due to early celebrity follows that are out of the era of a 16-year-old girl).
(4) That the conversations with Marianela only began after the account’s purpose had been shifted to Weiner-seeking and therefore are suspect.
That much is established.
Now, Jenny G. filed the police report as it became evident that Lee was closing in. So there is an actor and a motive.
Your line, other the other hand, while it does preserve the independence and integrity of John Reed, falls short by postulating additional actors with speculative motives.
Look Pat, if Lee’s right, this person is big time into misdirection. Wasn’t it convenient that the whole John Reid twitter war with the NYT came up when it did, just as Lee was announcing his grand unified sock puppet theory? What better to discredit the theory than a real live John Reid?
If there’s one puppeteer, all the motives and actions fit – Reid’s outburst, Alicia Pain, Jenny’s police report – they’re all increasingly desperate attempts to evade a closing net.
What have you got? No good explanation for the starchild111 history, and a bunch of hypothetical actors driven by highly speculative motives.
John Reid’s integrity is already suspect, why fight so hard to preserve it?
Comment by Nathan Wagner — 6/30/2011 @ 10:19 pm
Neal was attempting to make a point and a threat of course.
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 10:19 pm
“AB is not sending it to Neal? It reads as though he is receiving it too. Or both?”
bmertz – I found it in Neal’s twitter stream. Andrew addressed it to both Neal and Ron, Neal first. What I missed before was the second reference to Ron, or Robyn, as Breitbart misspells Ron’s handle.
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 10:19 pm
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 10:17 pm
Geez, is anyone surprised? Very unoriginal, pedestrian and just as boring as ever.
Comment by Dana — 6/30/2011 @ 10:19 pm
Gee Daley, I didn’t know it was your and JD’s personal blog.
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 10:20 pm
I’m assuming the twitter account with Andrew’s picture on it was real. Andrew may have just been kidding around with the message. Who knows.
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 10:20 pm
Nonsense. And, though (fortunately!) your nasty little post is gone, the address was there.
Nasty little perv!
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 10:21 pm
Anyone who likes Yelverton is an abject jackass. He has an education in the piccolo or some crap like that.
And JD is a very smart and funny guy, and it’s challenging to debate him if he is inclined to take you seriously. The reason lefties think he’s unserious is simply because he doesn’t take trolls very seriously.
Tam, were all your other comments just fabrications? Is that what all the stupid quotations marks and effusive compliments were about?
Because you weren’t satirical or witty there, if so.
Comment by Dustin — 6/30/2011 @ 10:21 pm
“Gee Daley, I didn’t know it was your and JD’s personal blog.”
The Tamandua – I have made no such claims. For a Truman Democrat you have very thin skin. Are you short as well?
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 10:22 pm
This is the truth. I recall it as well. I don’t know what this Alicia is, or if it’s the same one or merely a diversion, or if it’s Neal or yet another diversion. All I know is that it’s desperate for attention and unable to work up a better way of getting any.
Comment by Dustin — 6/30/2011 @ 10:23 pm
Look Daley, I likened myself to an elf. You tell me..
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 10:23 pm
I’m getting an idea where this is going… oh boy
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 10:25 pm
#81 – Dustin – much calmer than my response. Sorry about getting a bit over-wrought. Bad day, and way too much drama.
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 10:26 pm
Please, tell me! I’m completely at sea.
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 10:27 pm
I think Neal was trying to jerk our chain. How old is this guy?
17?
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 10:27 pm
Nathan Wagner,
This theory need not *necessarily* relate to JohnReid9 in any way. That may have been a sting operation, or it may be a real person who is what he says. I offer no opinion, as is my habit.
But everything you said about the timing can be explained by hoaxers. Everything.
This theory does something I have seen no other do: explain the political motivation part. Because that part has confused me up until now.
Comment by Patterico — 6/30/2011 @ 10:28 pm
I missed where I claimed this was my blog. But that comment at 10:17 was epic funny.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 10:29 pm
“Look Daley, I likened myself to an elf. You tell me..”
The Tamandua – So you are Yelverton!
What brought you here?
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 10:30 pm
I think you were fine. Whoever did that is a nasty person. Sorry you had a bad day. I’ve had a few lately, but today was great.
Comment by Sock#3 — 6/30/2011 @ 10:30 pm
Patterico, how many hoaxers are we talking about?
To categorize, are we talking “internet fun” or “Holy Blood, Holy Grail”?
Granted, that’s one to ten, but I’m trying to set some mental boundaries.
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 10:30 pm
Diana.. go read Ron’s tweets and his offer
Could be..
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 10:31 pm
Dustin, your credibility is as vapid as JD’s when you resort to hacking on this guy Yelverton the way you do. I have yet to hear “him” say the outrageous and uncharitable things that you two hurl at him, and many others. Are you so incapable of having a spirited debate without attempting to humiliate this guy, and everyone else. Anyone who reads these posts, would think that you both are consumed with envy toward this man. It is totally disproportianate man!
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 10:31 pm
Who knows? Could be one. Three. Five.
Why do you ask?
Comment by Patterico — 6/30/2011 @ 10:34 pm
Tammy, I don’t know why in the blue hell you want to talk about that complete nutcase, Yelverton. No one on this planet cares about that loser. He trolls blogs a lot. I got him to slip up once and admit he was the troll.
But stop talking about how much you hate JD, me, Elissa. No one gives a crap about that. Come on. Is this the best thing you can think of to contribute?
Comment by Dustin — 6/30/2011 @ 10:34 pm
OK, I’ll try to follow the link and make sense of it. He seems even more over-wrought than I am, though.
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 10:34 pm
Patterico,
Quote:
Well,
1. Lee was not leaning that way based on the timing of the call he received from the person claiming to be Jenny and owning the Starchild111 account but claiming no knowlege of the Weiner story. I would have to look back at the timing but I thought Lee felt it was the correct person based on the timing of her call in relation to an email that he sent.
2. This one is still open since we don’t know yet if Jenny is still claiming it was Lee that make threats or one of his “followers”. The whole police report needs to be confirmed. Did Lee get a copy since it involves him?
3. Not clear that this matters since I have not seen the alleged threats against Jenny tied back to Breitbart. Well, unless we want to assume that Breitbart is a “follower” of Lee’s
Summary, follow the sockpuppet trial until we get some additional facts on Jenny and the police report.
Joe
Comment by Joe Smith — 6/30/2011 @ 10:34 pm
Patterico,
I get the sense that whoever is at the center of this is now circling the drain and will be apprehended soon. And then any rats in his ship will happily squeal rather than be charged as accessories. It would certainly behoove those people to step forward now rather than face that situation.
Comment by Crispian — 6/30/2011 @ 10:36 pm
Pure, hopeless confusion. If I can start to whittle the player down to a nice, coherent list (lacking at this point, possibly because I’m reading too many sources with slightly conflicting views of events), I may begin to feel I have some sort of handle on this tale.
Presently, it’s like a very bad post-modernist novel, complete with mis-spellings and random occurences one is supposed to regard as amusements.
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 10:38 pm
Rave on Dustin, the only people who would believe or subscribe to your juvenile diatribe is JD and a couple of other sycophants on this blog. Look in the mirror ..
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 10:39 pm
You are clearly trying to threadjack.
Comment by Dustin — 6/30/2011 @ 10:41 pm
Why are you apparently so obsessed with me?
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 10:41 pm
____________________________________________
That person hates Lee, and Breitbart.
I’ve long suspected that the hoaxers or sock puppets were leftists who got into the Weinergate game in order to poke at, aggravate or mock Republicans/conservatives. Or perhaps the hoaxers got involved because they wanted to create a diversion or smokescreen for Weiner so that he’d come out of the scandal looking as good as possible.
The possibility they were of the right didn’t seem as likely to me, if only because they, unlike many liberals, probably perceived the basic misbehavior of Weiner as being so trashy — or already pathetic enough — that any piling on wouldn’t have been considered necessary. IOW, they wouldn’t have felt a need to create additional “gotcha!” moments.
Comment by Mark — 6/30/2011 @ 10:42 pm
*snicker* nailed it!
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 10:43 pm
Spoken like a true narcissist JD.
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 10:45 pm
BINGO
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 10:45 pm
Like I said before, this moved beyond surreal when Rauhauser got involved. Add that to the ronbryn meltdown …
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 10:45 pm
There has been a blizzard of asshattery recently.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 10:47 pm
JD – The Anteater sounds similar to Christoph to me. He was on a couple of Lee’s recent podcasts stirring sh*t about Dustin and there is no love lost between you two. He sounded like a young, fast talking, weenie boy, not like his tough commenting persona. I LOL’d.
One of Christoph’s favorite tactics is to accuse you of what he was actually doing.
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 10:48 pm
@ 65 that Twitter account is AndrewBreibart (minus the T). It is someone trolling around not the real Andrew B.
Comment by Noodels — 6/30/2011 @ 10:49 pm
Heh. I think I heard his voice on one of those.
I’ll check.
Comment by Patterico — 6/30/2011 @ 10:50 pm
OK, I am going to bed in aid of my goal of being a good worker in the morning.
If anything really great breaks overnight, here’s hoping it shows up as a “breaking!” headline somewhere.
Thanks, Patterico, for putting up with my chatter.
Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 10:50 pm
Daley, you are either delusional or pathetically trying to save face for Dustin and JD. Which is it?
Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 10:51 pm
Daley – it is sad that the likes of whoever it is simply must continue to hide behind multiple names, changing ID’s, etc … They are cowardly and pathetic.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 10:51 pm
The @andrewbreibart account was started on May 15. It is designed to fool people into thinking outrageous things were said by Andrew Breitbart.
Check out the followers and following.
Yuh-huh.
And the style? Getting normal people angry at someone on the right by pretending to be someone on the right, and doing something outrageous.
Now what was the theory of my post again?
Yuh-huh.
Hi Neal!
Comment by Patterico — 6/30/2011 @ 10:52 pm
Noodels – Thanks. Missed that. I heard somebody was faking an account for him. I did not pick up the spelling error.
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 10:52 pm
Your politically motivated actor hates Lee and Breitbart. So he calls in a death threat to Jenny pretending to be Lee? That’s awfully late in the game to do that as a first action, and it explains very little of this whole saga, so you must suspect more of him – running the sock puppets as a sting. That puts us back to one actor with some misdirection by a hoaxer phoning Lee.
Okay, that’s better.
I’m still inclined doubt it, though, and here’s why. It’s provable Lee didn’t make that call. Trying to get at Lee that way is a boneheaded thing to do, because if you’re caught, you’re in trouble. But if you threaten yourself, the worst (practically speaking) is that you’re taken as a metal case. Less risk, greater payoff if the misdirection succeeds.
As long as we’re speculating here, I’ll run with another line, but in a separate comment.
Comment by Nathan Wagner — 6/30/2011 @ 10:53 pm
JD,
I think the guy was really scared of Neal.
(Now speculating on the possible post-modern plot bunny) :
Ron was drawn into some sort of plot (probably the sockpuppets) and then ended up being discarded by Jen Preston. Ron blows up on twitter, threatens to talk ,and then Neal tells him to shut up or face the consequences. Ron goes to Patterico
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 10:54 pm
“Daley, you are either delusional or pathetically trying to save face for Dustin and JD. Which is it?”
The Tamandua – Your style is familiar and your mask is slipping. What names have you commented under here before. You can tell us. Lighten up, we’re your “new” friends after all.
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 10:55 pm
Yeah. True enough.
And I hope whoever did it DOES get in trouble. If they did.
I have to say I find your reasoning highly, highly unpersuasive, for reasons I can’t get into right now.
To me, this theory is highly satisfying on several levels.
Comment by Patterico — 6/30/2011 @ 10:58 pm
“Daley, you are either delusional or pathetically trying to save face for Dustin and JD. Which is it?”
The Tamandua – The above is not a denial. Nice try.
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 11:00 pm
Daley – it’s attacks on Dana were way out of proportion, and show a complete lack of character and basic awareness on it’s behalf.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 11:01 pm
So here’s the other speculative line, developing the theory Lee’s hinted at.
Politicians attract acolytes. Some of them can be obsessive and dangerous. Suppose the woman behind starchild111 was so to Weiner long before Weinergate started. Suppose she was rebuffed. Unable to follow him in her own person, she goes for the avatars, hoping to meet him for an affair or to exact revenge.
Can we find out whether there were restraining orders against anyone following Weiner, or if security knew of any such person?
Comment by Nathan Wagner — 6/30/2011 @ 11:02 pm
So Patterico,
The new working assumption is that someone on the left was running a sockpuppet honey pot to catch Breitbart but it turned out the Rep Weiner really was engaging in risky internet behavior and got caught up in the honey trap?
So then the sockpuppets had to switch plans and run a cross to drag Lee into some accused / alleged threats against someone that he appeared unable to find?
I am truly lost on this holiday weekend. I was hoping for your latest data dump that might provide us some additional data on the who / what / when / where / why of the Reids… ;-(
Joe
Comment by Joe Smith — 6/30/2011 @ 11:04 pm
All right, Pat. I’ll defer to your greater evidence.
Comment by Nathan Wagner — 6/30/2011 @ 11:04 pm
That one was on my top of the list ie The 800 pound lady that goes into a romance chat room
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 11:05 pm
Nathan, I think the identify of restraining order ‘victims’ is often confidential.
Comment by Dustin — 6/30/2011 @ 11:06 pm
Gleen Grenwald talked about himself in third person better than Yelverton the Whiner does in his thread-jacks here. Even John Hitchcock knows that.
Comment by John Hitchcock — 6/30/2011 @ 11:06 pm
This situation is too fascinating. I can’t leave
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 11:07 pm
Hitch – it is always amusing when it goes all gender-bender too.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 11:09 pm
Okay, I have followed this from the beginning but had never heard of this Neal guy except I had read some of his tweets lately on Twitter.
After much internet sleuthing (see Google search)he sure seems to fit the MO of someone who would be involved in something like this (see paid internet troll).
Comment by Noodles — 6/30/2011 @ 11:11 pm
Was Dustin right? Is it a piccolo? For some reason my recollection is that it was a flute of some sort.
Comment by elissa — 6/30/2011 @ 11:12 pm
“Daley – it’s attacks on Dana were way out of proportion, and show a complete lack of character and basic awareness on it’s behalf.”
JD – Exactly. If anybody’s gonna attack our womynfolk it should be us. Not that they can’t defend themselves. Heh.
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/30/2011 @ 11:12 pm
Where is Underdog when you need him?
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 11:14 pm
I’m taking notes for Maybee and Sarah daley!
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 11:14 pm
Goodnight, racists.
Comment by JD — 6/30/2011 @ 11:15 pm
I resemble that remark!
Comment by John Hitchcock — 6/30/2011 @ 11:17 pm
#129, me too, bmertz!
It is ‘funny’ that because of the internet, a handful of crazed individuals can have such an effect. They would otherwise be so irrelevant. I suppose that is exactly the kind of person that desperately lashes out on the internet – the otherwise irrelevant.
Comment by Crispian — 6/30/2011 @ 11:19 pm
Wow. I feel kind of dumb for not knowing about “Twittergate”. I will have to read more on that tomorrow.
Comment by Noodles — 6/30/2011 @ 11:20 pm
Crispian
The nature of the net changes status, just as it changed elections, and fortunes. The net magnifies the power of the few.
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 11:23 pm
Surreal
or is it more like a Séance? I’m waiting for the rapping on the table to begin.
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 11:26 pm
Will Neal choose someone to start channeling to us?
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 11:27 pm
Patterico
Was Wagner =Neal too?
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 11:36 pm
Neal Rauhauser’s tweets are now protected, I suspect his blender to be the culprit.
Comment by Crispian — 6/30/2011 @ 11:38 pm
The haunted blender? oh the horror
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 11:40 pm
well, this has been fascinating. But i have a life tomorrow. Goodnight all.
Comment by bmertz — 6/30/2011 @ 11:41 pm
Perhaps. I don’t want to libel his blender. Not after the way Weiner’s blender was accused. But Weiner’s blender appears to have been the only innocent party implicated in the whole affair.
Comment by Crispian — 6/30/2011 @ 11:43 pm
Night, I’ll be in search of one as well.
Comment by Crispian — 6/30/2011 @ 11:43 pm
Crispian,
The blender was never guilty. It was only accused of being the next likely failure.
Joe
Comment by Joe Smith — 6/30/2011 @ 11:59 pm
“Was Dustin right? Is it a piccolo?”
elissa – It’s definitely smaller than a normal skin flute. His inbreeding, doncha know.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 12:00 am
Just a warning, we are about T-minus 18 hours before we hit then next weekend to have a Twitter Hack, Hoax or what not as we head into the July 4th weekend.
Place your bets early for your favorite Sockpuppets NOW.
Joe
Comment by Joe Smith — 7/1/2011 @ 12:19 am
I suspect the answer to your post is that it is eminently possible and there aren’t any good arguments, given what little I’ve seen of the details so far, to show the theory is not possible.
But statement one and statement two don’t necessarily require any coordination or relationship between the actions. They are incidents that may or may not be related (other than a similar name being involved) but assuming a relationship without more information may well be misleading. The alleged threats against “the real Jennifer George” could be based on little more than the information on Lee’s site and this site, possibly with the sole purpose of smearing Lee, Breitbart and Patterico. By allegedly naming Lee in such a threat, the smear would have wide-ranging effects.
Comment by Sue — 7/1/2011 @ 12:21 am
please note that the AB listed is misspelled and is a sock in those tweets. Notice no “t” in Brei”t”bart.
Comment by freedom_costs — 7/1/2011 @ 2:06 am
109. JD
That is Ann Coulter’s definition of a Democrat.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 4:46 am
This theory is stupid.
The woman calling lee were lying, an innocent JG wouldn’t do that.
So assume that the caller was a hoaxer, why not lead Lee directly to JG in MA?
Why would an innocent JG in MA first accuse Lee for the threats and then change it to “Lee follower”.
Was the police report also filed by the hoaxer?
That’s a crime, and now the hoaxer has showed herself to the police.
And why tone it down just to “lee follower” if it was a hoaxer doing the filing?
This is like the first weiner defense “Breitbart hacked me”.
Breitbart was the one asking for a full investigation.
If there’s someone that really threatened JG , Lee is the person who’s the most interested to see who’s behind that.
If there’s a third person or group out there threatening people , every honest person want them caught.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 4:49 am
32.@goatsred Who leaked all that stuff to the Smoking Gun about you? Patriot?
Comment by Ms. Alicia Pain — 6/30/2011 @ 9:36 pm
Things that were leaked lead to me to certain people.But that’s a thing of the past.
Comment by goatsred — 7/1/2011 @ 4:52 am
Having just read through these comments, flame wars, misattributed quotes and conflicting recaps I’m more confused than ever. When did Ron Brynaert get involved in this?
My gut says:
NH = AP. Possibly more. NH seems to be the guy who pointed Smoking Gun at DW and Mike. It fits his MO.
This post-Weiner saga will be tied up by the end of next week IMO. Certain previously-involved-in-sock puppet-Twitter-scandal people aren’t as smart as they think they are. That’s their undoing. I’m calling it now.
Comment by coondawg68 — 7/1/2011 @ 4:58 am
simple neal marry
his sister aunt pain and mom
marry his uncle
Comment by ColonelHaiku — 7/1/2011 @ 5:20 am
Drat
Definitely on the wrong schedule for this but it makes great coffee reading
Tarantella ? Tarantula?tabula rasa? They make pills for that.
A pain? Rock. On. Don’t forget to use the kiddie scissors
Comment by Blackburnsghost — 7/1/2011 @ 5:34 am
John Hitchcock @ 11:06 pm wins the thread, I think.
Comment by Chris Chittleborough — 7/1/2011 @ 5:48 am
Lee on Stage Right w/ Larry O’Connor. Lee starts after minute 100
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/stage-right/2011/07/01/dick-fking-according-2-msnbc-hate-2night
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 6:21 am
157 coondawg68
who is NH?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 7:14 am
http://oi54.tinypic.com/fdt3yg.jpg
Comment by Max Henry — 7/1/2011 @ 7:21 am
97 Joe
1) The timing of the call Lee received was 15 to 20 mins after Lee had sent an email with his phone number to the other JG in CA saying “please call me about @starchild111.” He soon gets a call “Hi Lee, this is JG and I started @starchild111″ He first took that to mean that JG in CA had received his email and called him, a logical conclusion at the moment. He said this on the radio. post hoc ergo propter hoc. He then went into detail about why this proved (90%) it was JG CA…. but that was all mistaken. He has clarified that it was not JG CA afterward a number of times. But you have to listen to his radio shows a number of times to figure out what he thought at one moment and how that changed over time.
Turns out to have been a coincidence.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 7:29 am
If anyone can provide a soup-to-nuts time line or cast list for this melodrama? I’d appreciate it.
Comment by RCJParry — 7/1/2011 @ 7:31 am
“The woman calling lee were lying, an innocent JG wouldn’t do that.”
Temper Tantrum – Why make those assumptions?
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 7:51 am
coondawg68 – You are thankfully unaware of our serial sockpuppeting visitor who has been a plague to this site.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 8:04 am
166. Deception indicates…a deceiver.
Comment by SarahW — 7/1/2011 @ 8:09 am
We can explain anything with “that one was a fake person” (without proving that assertion) and “here’s what s/he said: these things that were true (because they fit my theory) and these things that were obviously lies (because they don’t fit my theory)”
Thing is, truth and lies are things to be confirmed with evidence, testimony, contrary facts, conflicts, corroboration, etc., not merely with whether they fit the analyst’s current beliefs or not.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 8:14 am
koam @wittier – Are you suggesting we should modify Lee’s proof by proclamation or it’s true because you can’t prove me wrong standards? Seriously?
That’s crazy talk!
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 8:18 am
I know no one’s seen the BPD report filed by JG MA.
But in the conversations with the detective, or on the call from JG to Lee, is it evident that the 2 messages left on JG’s answering machine were from a male?
Lee, when detective calls you, do you discuss what JG’s story at her home was relative to the “answering machine” messages left for her?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 8:19 am
A few questions of my own:
Where is the police paper work, has there been any attempt to retrieve it.
There would be reports, plural – the original, attached to the follow up interviews.
At what stage of progess is the investigation into threats against P., threats against Ace, and Mike Stack (an perhaps others unknown to me).
Do these investigations provide any additional standing to affected persons to collect information about threats received by others?
*************
The report would have some description of the woman making the complaint.
I’m not sure how redacted the reports would be – but to a detective or attorney or prosecutor seeking relevant information that could pertain to similar threats they are investigating, perhaps the reports would be available in their entirety and the Detective (Thornton?) would be willing to discuss the particulars.
*****************
The UCLA professor who runs writing seminars has been used as a sort of reference by Lee’s Caller/report-maker He has spoken to him, and so has Jan Preston.
It seems logical to me that if the prof were kind enough to speak to Lee about his student JG, that he would be glad to help rule out a poser.
Has Lee attempted to re-contact the professor?
(I doubt)
Has anyone asked Jan Preston if the prof more clearly established his pupil and the Boston caller are one and the same person that the information Lee has given us?
She shouldn’t be trusted to be telling the truth on that point, ever, until there is more solid confirmation.
Even if she is innocent and lying without need of lying, she IS a liar. So, no trust.
Comment by SarahW — 7/1/2011 @ 8:22 am
Temper Tantrum – I believe Lee is Dan Wolfe. I have seen no direct evidence to contradict this fact therefore it is proven.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 8:22 am
Also, who has an answering machine anymore? Most people use voicemail.
Younger people usually don’t even have landlines.
Comment by SarahW — 7/1/2011 @ 8:23 am
170 daleyrocks.
I enjoy all that as part of the mix. It’s part of our challenge to discern facts & testimony from enthusiasm for theories. It’s all good. Gives us something to do. But you’re right, “it’s true because you can’t prove me wrong” is what we grapple with.
But when there’s a list of notes on a particular event, you have to take each item and either support or refute it with other actual evidence from stated sources. This analysis may also be flawed but at least you’ve done the work.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 8:24 am
“The report would have some description of the woman making the complaint.”
SarahW – If somebody is actually in touch with that woman, perhaps she could be persuaded to release a copy of the police report.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 8:25 am
“Also, who has an answering machine anymore? Most people use voicemail.”
Guilty!
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 8:27 am
165. If anyone can provide a soup-to-nuts time line or cast list for this melodrama? I’d appreciate it.
Maybe we can set up a wiki. One person starts, lists a few things and other people add or correct things.
Find old messages and posts.
Reading this over and over leads to new insights, and that should be done. It is important to go over and over all of this again and again. If you missed something after 100 times, you might gain an insight on the 101st time, especially if you now have new information.
While doing this, you might want to temporarily assume various things and see where this gets you.
Maybe you could get a Talmudic scholar or a Ph.D in history to take a shot at solving this.
One thing:
There have to be at least 3 hoaxers, for two separate reasons:
1> At one point, Nikki, Marianela, and John2487 (whi was renamed to Juan_Dodgers) held a twitter conversation about a baseball game. (This needs verification)
Q. What baseball game and who else was talking about that baseball game at the same time?? Does anyone have them?
As a start, my speculation would be that JANE AUSTEN (the person who originally established the starchild111 account, but turned it over to LILY sometime around the time OPERATION WEINER SCHNITZEL was conceived) keyboarded Marianela, LILY was Nikki, and I would guess that REMBRANDT (aka seattle545?) was John2487.
REMBRANDT was the “painter”, but not necessarily the uploader, and certainly not the original author, of the fake twitter messages between RAW (Weiner) and SNOOPY.
SNOOPY is the person now trying to find out the true identity of John Reid, whom she thinks is the RED BARON, but may really only be SOCKREID.
Earlier, before the scandal broke, SNOOPY was trying to uncover who really was starchild111 and in general, determine what was going on.
2> The second set of screencaps that seattle545 posted (on June 20) don’t make too much sense unless you assume at least three people were involved:
1) An original author – who wrote and emailed in or faxed the dialogue.
2) A screen painter, who got started the wrong way.
3) The screen painter’s boss, or his bosses’s boss, who got the screen painter to post them before they were ready and while they were in a completely wrong and mixed up order (which he did not know.
I can’t think that all this has been done by one person, and there is at least one female voice involved. Could one person have done both the JG threat, and Mrs. Patricia Reid? Did anyone speak to both of them?
Perhaps any males may be afraid their voice(s) might be recognized, especially if taped and widely circulated.
Comment by Sammy Finkelman — 7/1/2011 @ 8:30 am
174 SarahW
(I get my voice messages transcribed by google voice into emails and text messages, so I hardly have to even listen to them, unless I need to clarify something that the transcription got wrong)
Yes I agree and we were discussing “who still has answering machines?” earlier. Someone who lives with mom & dad, maybe?
It could have been a paraphrase by JG or Lee. “Playing Telephone” as it were. If JG’s early 20s then maybe the term “answering machine” is more hardwired into Lee’s brain (device that came of age in his generation) and it’s just his default term for anything that records messages. But it could be either or neither.
Or maybe there’s an answering machine (or voicemail). If so, a record. We need that.
If she got 2 death threats and deleted them and then went to cops, well then she deserves not to be believed. But no one has told us if that’s what happened or not.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 8:31 am
koam @wittier – There you go with that generation bashing stuff. I’m just too old to understand this stuff, I guess. Heh.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 8:38 am
daleyrocks, you’re just BS:ing right.
If someone really were threatening JG why would she call Lee first before she even called the police, and lie to him.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 8:39 am
Points to note – who has talked to people on phone?
Who else has talked to people on phone? (Pat?, Mike?…not to our knowledge. Ron? anyone?)
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 8:44 am
More:
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 8:47 am
“daleyrocks, you’re just BS:ing right.”
Temper Tantrum – Using established Stranahan standards of proof, I believe Lee is Dan Wolfe. There is no direct compelling evidence proving otherwise. Prove me wrong.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 9:01 am
Koam , didn’t Tommyx just talk to the “mother”?
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 9:05 am
Lee, what is the timing of these events?
In short, how much info, if any, was out there on your radio show and online from you regarding the JG call you received before the real JG MA filed the report at BPD?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 9:20 am
Which lies that Lee attributes to his JG MA caller are concretely lies, supported by facts?
So which are the JG MA lies that are proven by facts rather than assertions?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 9:22 am
I have an answering machine! It just seemed easier when we moved to deal with that than to figure out who to do what for whichever phone bundle we were going to purchase. I hardly get any calls on my landline that are worth any effort.
Comment by MayBee — 7/1/2011 @ 9:26 am
185. Temper Tantrum
Tommy did describe talking to the mom, Patricia Reid. In supposedly clarifying follow up articles, Colby Hall, Tommy’s editor, says that Tommy had extensive email and telephone contacts with these sources (Patricia, Nikki, & Marianela).
I don’t believe that it clear from the phrasings in the Colby/Tommy “we were fooled, but that’s ok, we’re not stupid” articles whether Tommy feels like he talked to more than one female or not,
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 9:30 am
181. temper
We need a more solid timeline of those events. The sequence in which we all learn of events isn’t necessarily the sequence of when they happened.
The Detective called Lee some days after the report was filed at the precinct.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 9:35 am
Gaaah!
I spent some time yesterday trying to draw the scenario that if a professor of mine was called long distance by a policeman or by a journalist and was asked if he had ever had an elissa as a past student–the prof would say truthfully, “why, yes I did”. But in no way would the prof’s statement prove that the person standing in front of the policemen, or the person who had called the journalists claiming to be elissa was the same real elissa person the prof actually had taught in class.
Ergo, unless a picture identification of some sort was shared and compared between the policeman and the prof (or better yet with the school’s repository of student ID photos), then the prof’s statement is utterly meaningless. If such an ID comparison DID take place then that needs to be stated as fact–as evidence. Was it? I think this point is a question many people have but is a question that never quite seems to get answered. Knowing this would surely help in determining with more certainty what lies “JGMA” is/is not telling.
Comment by elissa — 7/1/2011 @ 9:44 am
koam, I think one reason Lee got this “single person sock puppet master” theory is because he only heard about one woman talking to Tommyx, the “mother”.
If there were many women ( real ones on phone ) behind those twitter identities , it would falsify his theory.
It would also make it less plausible that it’s a conspiracy.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 9:48 am
Koam…
Tommy only spoke to Patrica Reid by phone according to John Reid’s answer:
“There were phone calls with Tommy and my wife, there were emails with Tommy and Nikki andTommy and my wife, There were twitter DM’s with Tommy and Nikki. Other media tried to contactNikki but Tommy was a good hearted person, we trusted him.”
Which correlates to NYT fake ID story
http://nyti.ms/iGUfHt
Comment by az5thdstrct — 7/1/2011 @ 9:50 am
elissa- I agree
Comment by MayBee — 7/1/2011 @ 9:53 am
“koam, I think one reason Lee got this “single person sock puppet master” theory is because he only heard about one woman talking to Tommyx, the “mother”.”
Temper Tantrum – Exactly why it would be helpful to diagram who has communicated with whom and via what medium, phone versus electronic. Saying the same person talked to Jen Preston adds nothing if we don’t have verified ID.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 9:53 am
Throwing out an idea:
Could Neal be the Sockpuppet master?
What about the possibility that the different sockpuppets were members of the Bean Posse Trolls? J in MA could be a member. Records show that NR had women among his attack troll staff. He could still be the Sockpuppet Master playing personalities, but he had minions to draw from as well. At least to provide a female voice.
Comment by Sherlock — 7/1/2011 @ 9:55 am
Temper Tantrum – Lee may get upset with people here questioning his conclusions, but I don’t think he has been writing here long enough to understand that among the regulars, and certainly I see it with some of the newcomers, there are people with experience and skills with which he is unfamiliar in investigating fraud and other activities or just logical ability that are not convinced he’s got everything pinned down.
It’s not a slam on Lee, it’s a function of experience. Lee has been incredibly doggedf and patient in pursuing this story.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 10:02 am
daleyrock, my feeling is that Tommyx and Jen aren’t very cooperative, or worse. They hoped for the VRWC to show up.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 10:04 am
Elissa, and Maybee it is a loose end and one that’s been driving me to distraction, not because I’m set on some theory that JGcaller is not JGstudent.
All I get in response to questions about it is “who would do that” and circular logic as proof.
Comment by SarahW — 7/1/2011 @ 10:09 am
#195
From what I can recall:
Eliminating JG-CA phone calls and regarding phone calls
- LG with MA accent spoke with Stranahan and preston
- Patricia Reid Spoke with Tommy
Personally, more revealing at this stage for me to keep track of those “involved” that have not spoken on the phone:
-Nikki
-John Reid
-Marianela
-Marianela’s parents (don’t recall ANY contact)
-Alicia Pain (obviously)
-Seattle545
-Patriot
May have missed some
Comment by az5thdstrct — 7/1/2011 @ 10:17 am
SarahW , the reason I think JG caller is JG student is because she was making evasive lies talking to Lee, because she got something to hide.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 10:19 am
Agreed, Sarah. It’s an excellent thing to be distracted about.
“Who would do that?” always seems like such a logical way to think, except people do really nonsensical things all the time.
Comment by MayBee — 7/1/2011 @ 10:20 am
Of Course, also Gennette has spoken on phone and “interviewed” in person
And of course the weiner sexting woman that have come forward have as well
Comment by az5thdstrct — 7/1/2011 @ 10:21 am
Temper Tantrum @198 – Agreed. Lee is also being overly defensive of JP and Tommy X IMHO.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 10:24 am
Maybee and SarahW–thank you. Yes, we (and others too) have been bringing up this issue in various ways and on multiple threads for days now. Part of what has been so frustrating about it for me is that I still cannot tell if the question/concern/logic about ID verification is just not getting through–or whether it is purposely being ignored for some reason.
Comment by elissa — 7/1/2011 @ 10:24 am
I know I keep harping on this, but for all the deviousness there really didn’t seem to have been much of a strategy.
Comment by MayBee — 7/1/2011 @ 10:24 am
Maybee, but the person who called Lee had some very specific information.It would make the story even more complex.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 10:25 am
Elissa, the police who filed the report should have a verified identity.Dont know if that’s public information.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 10:27 am
208. TT
presumably 1 of at least 2 police who met JG MA in person confirmed that she is who she says she is via license or address info, etc.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 11:02 am
199 SarahW
see my 187. I’m not saying “who would do that?” I agree with you: we need to know what lies are proven in JG call. Lee labels half of conversation as lies. But we need harder evidence that some of them are actual, proven lies.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 11:05 am
“I know I keep harping on this, but for all the deviousness there really didn’t seem to have been much of a strategy.”
MayBee – That is the strategy.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 11:10 am
On Lee’s Blog talk Radio show last nite he said:
To me, the important information here, which I had not heard before, is that Preston called and talked to the Boston Jenny George. That discussion is where Lee got the contact info for the UCLA Professor. Many of the facts garnered by Jen Preston in her conversation with JG coincide with the information provided by the person claiming to be Jenny George that called Lee. Such that the accent Lee noted and her claim that she was originally from Massachusetts was consistent with the fact that Preston called a Jenny George in Boston; the spelling of the first name, Jenny; the connection to the UCLA screenwriting program.
To me, it is very likely that the person who called Lee claiming to be the Jenny George who set up the starchild111 account, is the same person that Jen Preston called in Boston- Maybe Lee can provide even more corroborating evidence. This makes Patterico’s first hypothetical- The person claiming to be “Jennifer George” who called Lee was a hoaxer- very unlikely. I think it is very reasonable to conclude at this point that the Boston Jenny George set up the starchild111 account and is Jenay=Nikki=JohnReid9 , among others (The Sockpuppet posse).
Lee also appeared last nite on Larry O’Connor Stage Right Show. O’Connor said, ” … that Content of death threats to Jenny George sounded almost identical to death threats to Patterico.” This I had not heard before. The threats to the Boston Jenny George were reported to Lee by her in her call to him, but not detailed, yet the threats to Patterico were made after JG’s call to Lee. There was no public knowledge of the details of both threats until JG filed her police complaint. If O’Connor is correct in his characterization that both threats sounded almost identical, that means the same person made both threats. At this point I believe that there is not enough evidence available to this forum to even suggest whetehr JG made the threats to herself and to Patterico, or someone else made the threats to both Patterico and JG- of course there seems to be other facts floating around that people have not yet disclosed.
If it were JG making threat to herself and Patterio, that would tie things up into a nice neat package. If it were someone else, that creates the problem, noted earlier by Nathan Wagner, of introducing an additional actor. It also creates a motive problem. That is, Patterico and the commenters on his forum seem to be moving towards unmasking the Boston Jenny George as the Sockpuppre Posse. That makes JG and Patterico antagonists. Why would someone be threatening them both?
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 11:10 am
“To me, it is very likely that the person who called Lee claiming to be the Jenny George who set up the starchild111 account, is the same person that Jen Preston called in Boston”
lamchopsl – I don’t believe anybody has been disputing this. Did not Lee encourage Boston Jenny to call Jen Preston? It proves nothing. Same person or hoaxer talked to both Lee and Jen. So what?
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 11:16 am
I concur with daleyrocks.
So far about the JGMA person it sounds like we only have Stranahan’s say-so. I am absolutely not saying he is lying. But until that person’s identity is independently confirmed – not via phone without reference to a face by both sides – I don’t treat it as the unadulterated truth.
And we have Preston apparently saying the professor is fake? Have we confirmed that not to be the case? I don’t think Preston would need to make that up merely to get out of investigating.
Again, all due respect to Stranahan, but we need to get concrete verification. At the moment, the identity of JG does not conflict with Patterico’s theory.
Comment by Crispian — 7/1/2011 @ 11:34 am
I haven’t followed comment threads closely enough to be sure no one has proposed this, but wouldn’t a simple explanation be that there are two separate sock-puppet masters, each with different agendas?
1. JG in Mass creates Starchild account to follow and try to get attention from various celebrities. She becomes interested in Weiner because she sees him on television, changes Starchild to Nikki account to try to get his attention just because he’s a minor celebrity and she likes him. She fishes for Genette, who, being more internet savvy, realizes Nikki is fake but goes along (normal way to try to get attention from someone on Twitter or FB is to try to work up ladder of friends). She’s not trying to get Genette to give away anything about sexting, because she doesn’t suspect it, but just wants attention from minor celebrity Weiner.
When scandal hits, she wants to help out “her” guy and realizes that a high-school girl who can testify to Weiner’s being a gentleman is useful. She invents the whole Reid family, etc., and is trying to support Weiner until she realizes she is in over her head.
2. Patriot is a sock for someone who is wants to trap the “right” into something stupid. He’s hoping to get Breitbart to bite on a manufactured story about Weiner that can then be turned into an embarrassment.
Why Weiner? Because people reading his tweets / following on FB realized he followed attractive young women. JG (as Nikki) wants to be one of them. The bornfree crew thinks he’s a sleaze. Patriot thinks that the right wing has gone overboard and sees an opportunity to set a trap for overzealous right wing.
This all gets so complicated because it turns out the Weiner actually _is_ sexting people.
(maybe Weiner’s tweet to Genette wasn’t because he mistook @ for D, but rather that he was chatting with 2 people at once and put the dick-pic in the wrong tweet. The tweet to Genette was intended to be public but include no pic–just letting everybody know he’s on TV, but in “modest” way. The dick-pic was intended to go into a different chat window to other sexting partner).
I’m sure there are flaw with this line of reasoning, but it does seem like a simpler story line than some being proposed.
Comment by Wondering — 7/1/2011 @ 11:35 am
Well said, Crispian.
Comment by Dustin — 7/1/2011 @ 11:36 am
213. daleyrocks
It was my understanding that Jen Preston called and verified Jenny George’s identity separately. Keep in mind that the JG who called Lee claimed she lived in CA and the JG Preston spoke with was confirmed to be in Boston.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 11:38 am
I think that’s possible, but doesn’t change how to proceed in confirming that theory. The most dangerous thing would be to assume veracity of facts that would limit how to proceed (eg assuming JG is exactly who she is claimed to be).
Comment by Crispian — 7/1/2011 @ 11:39 am
daleyrocks , if the police has verified an Id and address, it should be possible to unravel this.
If JG MA is innocent , it should be possible to trace the threats.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 11:40 am
Who sent the gym photos to the NE?
Comment by SusanT — 7/1/2011 @ 11:44 am
lamchopsl,
I missed that part where Lee said Jen Preston tried to shut down the investigation, she was looking for the VRWC so she probably didn’t like what she heard.
If Preston verified JG MA:s ID, I understand how Lee can be so sure.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 11:46 am
215. Wondering
Re: #2., if Patriot was trying to punk the right, why did he send the dicpic to Breitbart, destroying A. Weiner?
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 11:46 am
lamchopsl,
Might depend on Gennette’s honesty in this affair. Perhaps the “best laid plan” wasn’t realistically conceived.
Comment by Crispian — 7/1/2011 @ 11:50 am
221. Temper Tantrum
Lee seems to be insinuating that Preston has ulterior motives. I think he said as much on O’Connor’s show. He’s suggesting that the NY Times and Preston don’t want to let the story get out if it shows that A. Weiner was done in by a liberal woman. Plus, preston and the NY Times have already declared the Weiner grinders to be part of the VRWC.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 11:52 am
Number 212:
On Lee’s Blog talk Radio show last nite he said:
‘NY Times reporter Jen Preston talked by phone with the Boston Jenny George and got the name of the screen writing professor from her. Preston called him and talked to him and his wife. At that point Preston tried to shut down the whole investigation, claiming the professor’s website was faked and he may have been related to the Sockpuppet posse….
Well, it is an obvious suspicion that the Profeessor could be a KAOS agent. Now Jennifer Preston is saying that.
Comment by Sammy Finkelman — 7/1/2011 @ 11:57 am
The professor isn’t fake. She thought his writer-colony website might have been a phony.
Hoax websites have bindun so, the obvious questions is what might Jan Preston know that I don’t that tipped her to a hoax site.
The profs site is old though. Really old, at least ten years old, and in the wayback, and the contents have evolved very gradually and it is still essentially the same (with updates) as it has been in recent years.
In other words, the only way it is fake is if it has been hijacked, and there is no sign of that. The prof is still living. He can be contacted through UCLA for confirmation, too, (which I wish someone would do – though I won’t be doing it) and his phone numbers haven’t changed over the years
His website is an external source on his wiki page, and just a cursory check of Wikipedia updates show that same site was linked on the wiki at LEAST as far back as 2006 when an update to its formatting on the wiki page was done.
The who is conceals the owner of the site, and it was recently updated, but one is common and the other necessary to keep the domain name. And the site hasn’t changed in any significant way, not that I can detect.
So he’s real and his website it real.
Someone should talk to him in person, in the flesh, or through UCLA, just in case he’s in Europe and has mischievious house sitter taking his calls.
Comment by SarahW — 7/1/2011 @ 11:57 am
Outside of Lee’s jilted lover theory- and going back to the theory on Weiner’s future NYC democratic opponent . Some democratic group could be ridding themselves of their future opponent, OR someone in the Democratic party saw Weiner as a future MESS that would eventually explode and hurt their party. The info on Weiner was already out there, so there was going to be some sort of scandal. So why not do a controlled explosion before the NYC election for mayor?
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 11:58 am
==It was my understanding that Jen Preston called and verified Jenny George’s identity separately==
Lamchops–Do you have any insight you can share with us as to exactly how and who Jen Preston called and “identified Jenny Goerge’s identity separately”? If so, please share it.
Comment by elissa — 7/1/2011 @ 12:03 pm
lamchopsl,
Ulterior motives explains tommyx and Jen Prestons behavior. Why dont these “big J jornos” follow up on this story , it’s intriguing, but they just dropped it.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 12:05 pm
@Sarah
When professors leave town for a sabbatical to go out of the country they will often do a house trade with another professor needing a temporary house. Sometimes they just switch houses from their different locations while they conduct research,
OR
They ask a graduate student to house-sit for them.
Trivia info if you are interested.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 12:05 pm
Crispian – Thanks. Remember, Boston Jenny called Lee on a blocked number and the big deal Lee and others have made about nobody being able to track her down. JP did not call Boston Jenny. It was the reverse at Lee’s suggestion if I am recalling correctly. If Boston Jenny kept her story straight between the two calls, it adds nothing to our body of information.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 12:05 pm
201. TT, that doesn’t follow. Yes, JGcaller/threatreporter is a liar. It does not then follow that she is JGstudent, one does not suggest the other.
In fact, the lying and sock-tropes employed by JGcaller are what makes the claim of identity even more suspect.
A poser, who lies, and forged bios and even ID, would not have a lot more compunction about using someone else’s identity as a screen.
Comment by SarahW — 7/1/2011 @ 12:07 pm
It was my understanding that Jen Preston called and verified Jenny George’s identity separately.
lamchopsl – Remember the PROOF nobody can find Boston Jenny? No sale.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 12:07 pm
“Lee seems to be insinuating that Preston has ulterior motives.”
SHOCKA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 12:11 pm
“They ask a graduate student to house-sit for them.”
bmertz – Yup, you had to there. Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 12:13 pm
228. elissa
None, other that the way Lee characterized the conversation between Preston and JG. But…
Lee had no way of knowing JG lived in Boston, in fact she told him she lived in CA.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 12:22 pm
233. daleyrocks
It is my understanding that the Boston police department took a complaint and interviewed Jenny George, in Boston.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 12:26 pm
lamchopsl,
Yes, that is all of our “understanding.” But our understanding is not proof.
We’re still waiting on verification of JG’s identity.
Comment by Crispian — 7/1/2011 @ 12:30 pm
238. Crispian
This is Lee’s description of his interaction with the Boston Police detective:
http://leestranahan.com/jenny-george-files-police-report-accusing-me-of-making-threats-against-her
What exactly do you consider to be, “verification of JG’s identity”?
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 12:36 pm
Who else has talked to people on phone? (Pat?, Mike?…not to our knowledge. Ron? anyone?)
Nobody…Tried to get Patriot on the phone many times to no avail.
Comment by goatsred — 7/1/2011 @ 12:43 pm
I mean, who she is, not just that she exists. We can assume that the police confirmed her identity. Sounds like a reasonable assumption. But beyond that we really don’t know. She is appparently not the JGCA with a background as described by JGMA on the phone to Lee. So who is she? Beyond a name on a police report?
Comment by Crispian — 7/1/2011 @ 12:46 pm
daleyrocks,
We dont know what type of information Preston got from JG to ID her. Lee’s challenge to find her was very early , there was a blog where her name was published , I dont remember what’s it called.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 12:48 pm
240. goatsred
My hypothesis is that the reason Patricia Reid spoke with Tommyx on the phone is that the Sockpuppet Posse Master is a woman. She couldn’t represent herself as John Reid. If the person behind Dan Wolfe is a woman, then she cannot talk with anyone on the phone with out revealing her gender.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 12:51 pm
I am sorry if it looks like I’m singling out specific individuals who I’m sure are commenting here in good faith just so I can try to make this point–again– but statements like:
“Lee characterized…”
“…it was my understanding that..”
“the police who filed the report should have a verified identity”
“presumably 1 of at least 2 police who met JG MA in person confirmed..”
just are not all that helpful in moving the story forward at this stage of the game when actual, irrefutable facts are what people are really looking for.
Comment by elissa — 7/1/2011 @ 12:57 pm
232 SarahW. But I dont see the need for a ID thief to be evasive. Why lie you’re in CA if you’re a sock but give the real professor?
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/1/2011 @ 1:02 pm
244. elissa
I understand your frustration, but there are no irrefutable facts. period. Not in this universe. There are only degrees of certainty.
Maybe Lee made that Boston detective story up from whole cloth. Even if it was confirmed by someone else, maybe they are conspiring with Lee. It happened to Tommyx. Someone created the JohnReid9 account and the Mark Alecia account 30 minutes apart and 24 hours after the Weiner story broke. Within a few hours these two accounts were used to punk Tommy by seemingly confirming each other’s story.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 1:09 pm
neal is from iowa. the fbi just raided the home of another iowan, suspected of being a lulzsec member. that person, laurelai bailey also goes by wesley baily and is a pre-surgical transgender. could neal know laurelai? laurelai is a male going female and may sound female on the phone. just a weird iowa coincidence perhaps.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 1:14 pm
nancy drew–
interesting. link?
Comment by elissa — 7/1/2011 @ 1:17 pm
Last Night’s Radio Stranahan
you can skip the first 20 mins to get to the Jen Preston discussion.
So the question is does Jen Preston really entertain the idea that Lew Hunter is a fake person with a fake website? Or has she crafted this excuse just for Lee in hopes that he’ll bite at the story? (To his credit, Lee laughs at the contention.) Does it say what she thinks of Lee? Is Jen Preston spinning false tales to the bloggers now (we’ve seen how she schmoozes her interview candidates) …or does she really buy into the conspiracy theories? (Not that there couldn’t be some conspiracy…but Lee is correct that Lew Hunter isn’t a fake person with a fake website, a fact that should be very obvious to the “NY Times reporter on Technology, Social Media in Politics, Government – and real life”) Did Lee get her drift or not get her drift…was she giving him codewords and hints for his safety?
Why did she want him to back off so badly?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 1:24 pm
@daleyrocks
Right. They have been hit up to walk dogs and serve the bar too. lol
Or, help them set up their web pages
I caught part of a discussion about hijacking web pages /kidnapping?? theory. I didn’t read enough to understand the entire meaning, so I may have misunderstood. It triggered this thought ( you’ll have to forgive me, I have a tendency to toss ideas around ) :
In that sort of trading houses/house-sitting situation, not only would another professor or a grad student have access to the home, if they are hackers they could also gain access to the desktop computer left at the house. A number of older professors still use desktops and are not computer or web savvy. There is well-known dinosaur that still uses a typewriter and hand writes his notations.
Ok getting back to the point, if the UCLA professors were out of town, that would also allow their house-sitter to answer the phone to speak to a reporter.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 1:26 pm
http://gawker.com/5816291 Here’s just one link. I googled both neal and laurelai bailey and discovered the iowa links. they are both in the same business, both ruthless, both extreme leftist and seems like a “fixer” might be in sync ideologically as someone who is part of anonymous and the more militant lulzsec. they see themselves as fixers too. Iowa isn’t that big to have so much internet hacking talent on such an epic scale as these two.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 1:38 pm
daleyrocks
#250
That was in reference to SarahW’s comment that someone needed to verifiy if the UCLA couple were actually in town and at their home. It is summer.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 1:43 pm
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/02/981419/-Bringing-Breitbart-%28And-Thomas%29-To-Justice-%28Action-Alert!%29
Speaking of Neal- he does love him some hacker stories…
Comment by surreal — 7/1/2011 @ 1:44 pm
after reading the lee/jen convo, my suspicions of a link grow more credible. Neal is a very bad and dangerous man. he’s worked on many democrat campaigns and refers to himself as a fixer. maybe he’s part of anonymous too.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 1:46 pm
249. koam @wittier
Great job with that transcript. I was way too lazy to do that. You are a better man than I- even if you happen to not be a man.
It’s possible Preston is dumb enough to think she could convince Lee that it was a “fake” website, but I consider it unlikely. I consider it much more likely that she was told to back of by her editor. And not for some vast death-hacker threat to the safety of the solar system, but because the editor and the Times do not want to spend any resources pursuing a story that will refute a previously made perfectly good smear against the Right, while at the same time show that A. Weiner was laid low by a liberal woman. I think the editor told her to back off, and like a good little minion, she backed off.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 1:47 pm
read up on neal as much as you can. i think he’s the guy making all of the threats and has told jen to shut it down or else. he’s always referring to his connections. go read RonBryn’s twitter. Wow….
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 1:48 pm
@surreal#253 re: Neal’s Hitlerian Rant
LMAO Is he serious?
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 1:50 pm
I mean..if hillary and bill are as close to weiner as has been described, don’t you think they are the best folks to know a well known democrat fixer like neal, to fix weiner’s problem? Maybe thats why weiner was reported to have called bill – to apologize to bill??? Hah! think not…it was to get a fixer hired. Wallah! the fake story to tommy xtopher, the fake story to jen and the NY times…Bill and Hill know a lot of fixers and lots of democrats are on record as having hired neal. Hmm? Perhaps? that would be pretty dangerous to unearth wouldn’t it?
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 1:53 pm
255 lamchopsl
GenderAnalyzer said that i’m 93% man, fwiw.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 1:57 pm
I encourage you to read the link to the daily kos above. that article was written by neal. he included language that anonymous uses to threaten. It is their code. neal said he was given this language to pass along. Then, look at the picture attached. It’s anonymiss, as in female. Is that laurelai bailey helping neal write that aricle?
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 2:07 pm
that article makes it clear that at least neal was following weiners project to destroy justice thomas. were they working together? looks like neal was trying to create plausible spin, to FIX weiners problem. i hope lee does not back down on this. could be another big scandel worthy of a book. very spy novelish.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 2:09 pm
Could that article at Kos be what JP@NYT is running scared from/by?
Comment by surreal — 7/1/2011 @ 2:15 pm
251. nancydrew
LOL! best laugh I’ve had today. Although I hope for your sake that the intrepid Iowahawk does not get wind of your sentiments.
On a related topic, I noticed that Neal RAThauser (AKA Simon Sinister) made his twitter feed protected this morning. it was not so last nite.
http://twitter.com/#!/NealRauhauserhttp://twitter.com/#!/NealRauhauser
How delicious it would be if the FBI swooped in and arrested him for all these death threats. But alas, life never seems to turn out so perfectly.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 2:15 pm
oh and then you get to the bottom and see that neal ratted by lying on the innocent goatsred. he gives himself away as a fellow traveller of anonymous. i think this is a very big deal. what else is neal up to? he’s close to weiner which puts him close to hillary, the secretary of state, and bill, a former, yet discredited president, who likely still can be blackmailed over post whitehouse behavior. just speculatin..not good. The real scandal on weinergate was the potential to compromise the secretary of state.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 2:18 pm
257.LMAO Is he serious?
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 1:50 pm
Truthfully, I have no idea. But I think *he* takes it seriously, for whatever that’s worth.
There’s a thin line between dedication, and obsession, IFYWIM.
Comment by surreal — 7/1/2011 @ 2:20 pm
I read iowahawk. He’s hysterically funny…I’m one myself. That’s why the iowa connection between the two caught my eye and I decided to see if some dots could be connected. I think those dots are now pretty well connected.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 2:20 pm
His level of hate raises the eyebrow:
DK:
Neal’s Rant on Punishing Breitbart’s Enablers
I read about what Sinister did to those poor guys on the article link someone posted today. How did he not end up in jail? No one did anything about it?
His hate/lust relationship with danaloesch is rather disturbing too. Stalker material in fact. Move over Voldermort, you have competition
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 2:26 pm
His level of hate raises the eyebrow:
DK:
Neal’s Rant on Punishing Breitbart’s Enablers
I read about what Sinister did to those poor guys on the article link someone posted today. How did he not end up in jail? No one did anything about it?
His hate/lust relationship with danaloesch is rather disturbing too. Stalker material in fact. Move over Voldermort, you have competition
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 2:26 pm
“We dont know what type of information Preston got from JG to ID her. Lee’s challenge to find her was very early”
Temper Tantrum – By very early do you mean 6/24 or later, the date of the Nikki Revealed BTR show?
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 2:26 pm
I don’t know how that double posted, My apologies. My server has been refusing to refresh and to post since yesterday.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 2:33 pm
I don’t really understand all the different theories you all have but I thought it important to add that my Twitter account was hacked back around 6/11. (which is why I closed my Clay_Arts account)Not only were people being randomly unfollowed, messages that I had deleted more than a year prior were showing up as originating in the wrong accounts. Someone else was controlling my account.
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 2:35 pm
goatsred – Serious question. I understand why you are PO’d at PatriotUSA, but in the time you guys were fooling around together as bornfree or whatever, did you ever have any indication that he was not a conservative or that he was a sock.
I ask, because I find most liberals cannot successfully impersonate a conservative for any length of time because they just don’t understand how we think. You see it with liberal trolls on blogs attempting to fool people. They invariably slip up because they are idiots or too indoctrinated with liberal Kool Aid about conservatives they put their feet in their mouths.
Did you see any hints of that with your interactions with Patriot to justify all the suspicion being cast his way?
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 2:35 pm
I should clarify…. DM’s were showing up that had been deleted more than a year ago.
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 2:36 pm
live by the sword, die by the sword. Delicious karma on it’s way to neal. hoisted on his own petard. two clever by half? reading his own words in so many different forums you get the idea that he’s the smartest guy out there so you better watch out…and then he ends up leaving too many clues behind and he’s done. Not so smart afterall eh? Anyway, did they ever find the white house travel office manager that disappeared??? I always wondered what happened there.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 2:42 pm
clay arts…i read about you in some twitter posts on ronbryn…different accounts and things. can you refresh my memory so I dont’ have to go read through them again? One of the things neal is really good at, it seems, is finding idle twitter accounts and taking them over. He talks about handing over control of various twitter accounts to someone else. It looks like his speciality is creating sock puppets and then working them like sockpuppet sim city. I wonder if one of the JG’s was just an innocent person with an idle twitter account that got hacked by neal or laurelai and they took it over for a while. maybe? Allegedly?
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 2:51 pm
I think i decided during my research today that patriot usa is likely neal. thus, goatsred got really had. I hope he pursues some legal remedies. I’m thinking you may have a case, goatsred. Ask Patterico.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 2:53 pm
@nancydrew Do you want my whole story? Or just from the unfortunate day I read one of Ron’s tweets?
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 2:53 pm
nancydrew, I will disagree about Patriot. I have talked to him, and I think he is exactly who he says he is. Just my opinion.
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 2:55 pm
@251 nancydrew.
Interesting story about Laurelai Bailey and the revenge of her ex-hacker associates. I see what you meant about why JenP might be afraid of Sinister – re: the article’s description about that hacker group forging a document about LB’s involvement. End Game, she loss her job. Real life but another potential movie plot.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 2:57 pm
http://the-classic-liberal.com/democratic-consultant-neal-rauhauser-pedophilia-themed-tea-party/ An example of the charm of neal, who I am sure is a graduate of the Bill Obama school of Civility.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 3:06 pm
Neal is trying to scare people that HE is ‘Anonymous’. He is trying to use their rep as his own personal army. Anonymous is not coordinated. It is any one who says they are. Maybe JP is scared of all that but no one investigating this should be.
Yes, he might have some trolls helping him etc. but he the funny thing he isn’t even anonymous in the regular sense of the word never mind the group.
Comment by Noodles — 7/1/2011 @ 3:06 pm
People have accused me over and over of being this person or that person but the last straw was being accused of being the person who sent death threats. I guess if I had jumped on the “hate Dan” bandwagon, no one would have said a word to me. As it is, I am guilty just because I believe what Dan has said. I am a friend to someone who desperately needed one. That’s it. This should have been investigated by law enforcement from the beginning and we really don’t know that it isn’t. I hope so because the things being written as fact are hurting innocent people.
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 3:08 pm
how do you know?
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 3:09 pm
Sorry for that poorly written post! =/
Anyway, my main point it Neal is a troll. It would make sense why all this hasn’t ended yet (if he is involved) and why the socks didn’t just disappear into the night. Trolls live for this sort of drama (never mind if there is money involved).
Comment by Noodles — 7/1/2011 @ 3:10 pm
I keep reaching this point, and realizing that we do not know that the woman who called Lee and the woman who filed the report were the same woman.
The timing appears to be very close.
However, if the woman who called Lee was related to the person who called in the threats, then she would know about the threats, and could muddy the waters, thoroughly, with that phone call.
I am not saying this is what happened. I am saying that if the scenario is played this way, then the woman who filed a police report is not a liar, or even involved in this increasingly murky matter.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 3:13 pm
Noodles
Certainly, commenters are too small of fish to worry about it. We aren’t a big threat. But Jen Preston would become one if she went after the story. Lee has made himself into a threat as well. Captain Obvious says: hence he got the phony phone call. You would not think that he would be dumb enough to threaten Patterico and Ace, but apparently his ego is bigger than common sense.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 3:17 pm
Why does The New York Times want bloggers to stop looking into the Weiner case?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 3:19 pm
266. nancydrew
Neal does fancy himself a computer-network expert, and if he really believes that nonsense he writes, it is so far left he borders on anarchism- which is where those cyber-warfare groups habituate. BTW, I think he does believe it because of the obsessive compulsive nature of his style. Neal, in his mid 40′s, is a bit older than Laurelai Bailey, who is 29, and they hark from Davenport and Graettinger which aren’t that proximal, though I suspect Neal left Iowa for Chicago many moons ago.
If Neal is connected to these hacker groups, his political connection may save his hide- I remember Andrew Sullivan having his marijuana possession case dropped by prosecutes over the objection of the presiding judge- but if he is behind the death threats the weight of evidence collected at the lower levels of the FBI may be so great that political intervention is too risky and he may be cut lose by the political powers in the justice Department.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 3:19 pm
280. Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 3:06 pm
Just watching this vid, and something popped out at me- at 5:09 into the vid, one of the tweets says “@GregWHoward my clients, only 10% of which you see are delighted
”
Didn’t the threatening letter to Patterico include the term “clients”?
I’m reaching, I know, I know…
Comment by surreal — 7/1/2011 @ 3:22 pm
Stillconfused..
Clarify please: I will disagree about Patriot. I have talked to him,
On the phone, twitter?
Comment by az5thdstrct — 7/1/2011 @ 3:23 pm
Spot on! (Ahem! Sorry for the Britishism – it just fits.)
Part of why it’s so confusing is that none of this seems to be aimed in one direction!
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 3:24 pm
@az5, Twitter but I don’t ask him any questions. I am just there to be his friend.
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 3:25 pm
I lol @ his association with ‘hacker groups’. The public buys into this fear and nonsense. He is a troll. That is all. Maybe a good one. Maybe a paid one. But just a troll.
I could make a YT video calling Neal out as Anonymous if I wanted to. I could start trolling him if I wanted to. Anonymous would then be trolling Anonymous (or someone who paints an association with them) . My point is guys like him use the rep of some members of Anonymous to scare people from even getting involved.
Comment by Noodles — 7/1/2011 @ 3:27 pm
Stillconfused
You changed your twitter accnt at least 3 times correct? from clay_arts to _clayarts to current? Or not correct?
Comment by az5thdstrct — 7/1/2011 @ 3:27 pm
Take that back, I did ask him why in the hell he was talking to Ronbyrn. I tell you one thing, I wasn’t find of journalists before this, but I will never trust another one after this. They will sell their souls for a story.
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 3:28 pm
lamchops!
I noticed he put CNN on the hit list of enemies of the people for the crime of hiring DanaL. Sinister does strike me as someone with the POV “I am a god”, generalized contempt, and so on.. I’m not claiming the training to determine what precisely is the nature of his problem. But, I think there is a serious one. His focus on DanaL is nothing short of creepy.
His personality flags remind me of two of our sockpuppets.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 3:29 pm
Az, see my above post. Yes, I changed again because my account was doing the same thing it was before. Not immediately, but it did. After I realized someone was trying to find out my name, this whole thing changed to me. I have done nothing wrong and I have especially done nothing to warrant anyone trying to find me. I have had a stalker once. I do not want another one. Before all this, I didn’t hide my name. Now, I don’t trust that some insane person won’t knock on my door. People took my protecting my safety as my being guilty. I will say, I have never experienced such blind-hatred. This has changed me.
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 3:34 pm
Stillconfused
Just asking to understand if the current is really original clay_arts and why change accnt the 2nd time.
Comment by az5thdstrct — 7/1/2011 @ 3:36 pm
On the phone at the Nordstrom cafe andhubs wants his phone back…… Pardon twit speak if I lapse into it.
Thanks loam for giving us context of jan prestons convo with lee. Makes a heck of a lot more sense now.
Prestons caution to Lee is just that, a caution and not a dismissal. Anon style punks can go deep and she is trying to check things out. She is not declaring the website fake but allowing it might be until confirmed otherwise. I made a similar cautionary plea around the same time , and had a devil of a time making it clear this was not a preferred alternative theory, but one that needed proper consideration when evaluating personas , claims, methods and motives.
Follow up and nailing down loose end will push the case in The right direction whatever the reality is
Comment by Sarahw — 7/1/2011 @ 3:40 pm
AZ. I would like to change my name back to _ClayArts but I don’t dare because I know how you will all react.
I have seen the worst in people.
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 3:40 pm
Do you mean people here confused? Or on twitter ?
Comment by I'm Getting a Headache — 7/1/2011 @ 3:53 pm
testingComment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 4:01 pm
Headache, I don’t comment here enough to feel a lot of hatred but there are people who comment here who state suspicions as fact. People will take your words and use them against you not matter how innocent you are. I learned the hard way that if someone wishes you to be guilty, they will find a way. I see Ronbryn compare Dan to Jared Loughner, tell him how horrible I thought that was, he pretended to be my friend then the next thing I know, he is accusing me of horrible things that shocked me. I got involved to be a friend to Dan. I will follow that through as long as he needs me to but after that, I will leave politics in my past.
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 4:08 pm
Thinking out loud:
Assume JG MA is a real person who created @starchild111 in 2009 or 2010.
She used it as a fan of celebs because she heard that you can directly get response message by celebs on Twitter. (& you can…people used to write fan mail and hope for a reply, same thing.)
She didn’t keep using it because none of her friends used it and she didn’t get much satisfaction from celebrities she tracked, primarily the Kardashians and some Latinas, including J-Lo. Mostly about pretty actresses & models.
She was also a fan of the UCLA writers program. She either attended that program or knew of it because she’d taken one of the writing retreats with Lew Hunter, a UCLA prof, in the past.
To clarify, while it’s been reported as a lie that she went to UCLA, the Writers Program is an extension program. You can take courses online.
http://twitter.com/#!/writersprogram
http://www2.uclaextension.edu/writers/detail.php?sID=aboutwr
It’s not only for screenwriting, and Lew Hunter isn’t listed as one of the instructors. Lew is a professor emeritus at UCLA in screenwriting.
http://www.tft.ucla.edu/faculty/lew-hunter/
Also if she were studying at UCLA on campus, she could be home in Boston for the summer. Who knows?
So if she dropped her Twitter account, who’s to say that one of the bad guys (I won’t name names but you’ve been discussing them) couldn’t have just picked up her Twitter account after noticing that it was girly and evidently abandoned…and she’s a patsy? Why not? Maybe she just had a guessable password – we read that most people use “password” “123456″ “qwerty” and similar stupid things as passwords..why wouldn’t the Kardashian fan be one of them? Twitter’s not important, why use a strong password that’s hard to type and remember?
She knows nothing about Weiner, has nothing to do with Nikki, etc.
She gets 2 threatening calls out of the blue.
Who made the calls?
The calls are either made by people who want to put a stop to “the Reids” …and researching the starchild111 account find that it was opened by Jenny George. (it was, so it must be a findable fact one way or another…on twitter records…how much money would it take to get someone inside twitter to give up or confirm her identity?) They assume she is behind all this (like many do) and try to scare her.
Or
The person/people behind The Reids makes the call to her to make it seem like she’s the one behind the socks.
She gets the calls, she looks up what is this about, finds Lee and calls him, scared and worried. She has now seen his lovely, comforting pictures and heard his soothing voice and the cat of satan in the background. Do you think he calmed her down much? No. She think’s he or his fans could be behind this. (Look at some of the wackos we have commenting here.)
She’s still panicked and goes to the BPD.
She’s a patsy.
Just thinking out loud.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 4:14 pm
So it’s Friday, and I’m not going out shooting with my boyfriend.
This being the case, does anyone think we’re going to get this solved tonight? Is more information coming?
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 4:14 pm
Thinking out loud:
Assume JG MA is a real person who created @starchild111 in 2009 or 2010.
She used it as a fan of celebs because she heard that you can directly get response message by celebs on Twitter. (& you can…people used to write fan mail and hope for a reply, same thing.)
She didn’t keep using it because none of her friends used it and she didn’t get much satisfaction from celebrities she tracked, primarily the Kardashians and some Latinas, including J-Lo. Mostly about pretty actresses & models.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 4:15 pm
Thinking out loud: part 2
She was also a fan of the UCLA writers program. She either attended that program or knew of it because she’d taken one of the writing retreats with Lew Hunter, a UCLA prof, in the past.
To clarify, while it’s been reported as a lie that she went to UCLA, the Writers Program is an extension program. You can take courses online.
http://twitter.com/#!/writersprogram
http://www2.uclaextension.edu/writers/detail.php?sID=aboutwr
It’s not only for screenwriting, and Lew Hunter isn’t listed as one of the instructors. Lew is a professor emeritus at UCLA in screenwriting.
http://www.tft.ucla.edu/faculty/lew-hunter/
Also if she were studying at UCLA on campus, she could be home in Boston for the summer. Who knows?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 4:15 pm
She was also a fan of the UCLA writers program. She either attended that program or knew of it because she’d taken one of the writing retreats with Lew Hunter, a UCLA prof, in the past.
To clarify, while it’s been reported as a lie that she went to UCLA, the Writers Program is an extension program. You can take courses online.
It’s not only for screenwriting, and Lew Hunter isn’t listed as one of the instructors. Lew is a professor emeritus at UCLA in screenwriting.
Also if she were studying at UCLA on campus, she could be home in Boston for the summer. Who knows?
So if she dropped her Twitter account, who’s to say that one of the bad guys (I won’t name names but you’ve been discussing them) couldn’t have just picked up her Twitter account after noticing that it was girly and evidently abandoned…and she’s a patsy? Why not? Maybe she just had a guessable password – we read that most people use “password” “123456″ “qwerty” and similar stupid things as passwords..why wouldn’t the Kardashian fan be one of them? Twitter’s not important, why use a strong password that’s hard to type and remember?
Most Common Internet Passwords
She knows nothing about Weiner, has nothing to do with Nikki, etc.
She gets 2 threatening calls out of the blue.
Who made the calls?
The calls are either made by people who want to put a stop to “the Reids” …and researching the starchild111 account find that it was opened by Jenny George. (it was, so it must be a findable fact one way or another…on twitter records…how much money would it take to get someone inside twitter to give up or confirm her identity?) They assume she is behind all this (like many do) and try to scare her.
Or
The person/people behind The Reids makes the call to her to make it seem like she’s the one behind the socks.
She gets the calls, she looks up what is this about, finds Lee and calls him, scared and worried. She has now seen his lovely, comforting pictures and heard his soothing voice and the cat of satan in the background. Do you think he calmed her down much? No. She think’s he or his fans could be behind this. (Look at some of the wackos we have commenting here.)
She’s still panicked and goes to the BPD.
She’s a patsy.
Just thinking out loud.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 4:16 pm
Yes, koam? Go on.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 4:16 pm
confused,
This blog has a number of unfriendly and even malicious
sockpuppets visit it, no? It is not personal, you are just an unknown.
So you meant people were attacking you on twitter? Do you know Ronbryn that well? he was getting aggressive and accusing you..?That sounds like a personal attack.
Ronbryn does sorta lose it, frequently
Comment by I'm Getting a Headache — 7/1/2011 @ 4:21 pm
I had the worst time posting that…the system was not showing my full post..evidently the links I had related to the UCLA program and Prof Lew Hunter were being rejected. In any case they show that the Writers Program is an extension program and that Lew is Prof Emeritus and that the WP is still on Twitter, I follow it.
So…Why not accept that JG in Boston is a patsy? Some bad guys found her abandoned twitter account and it seemed opportune to make into a teen girl’s as a fake Weiner fan?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 4:22 pm
You’ll have to ask him Headache. I didn’t know he existed until I saw that Loghner statement.
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 4:27 pm
I don’t know him confused. But I don’t understand why he would go after you
Comment by I'm Getting a Headache — 7/1/2011 @ 4:29 pm
Nor do I headache. As I said, you’ll have to ask him that.
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 4:29 pm
Don’t know him. I don”t tweet, and if I did I don’t think I’d be sending tweets to guy I didn’t know without a good reason.
I think everyone in the known universe read his tweets this week. He’ll never them down. Another reason to not tweet. Sooner or later youll lose your temper and show your underwear in public. Whoops that was Anthony not me.
Comment by I'm Getting a Headache — 7/1/2011 @ 4:34 pm
I don’t know why he lost it unless he was pissed that I REALLY DON’T know anything about all of this.
Have a good night
Comment by Stillconfused — 7/1/2011 @ 4:37 pm
Sure confused. take care and don’t take everything so hard. It’s not your fault he’s lost it. k?
Comment by I'm Getting a Headache — 7/1/2011 @ 4:39 pm
308. koam @wittier
So far, all the evidence indicates that JG Boston is Jenay=Nikki= etc.
At this time none of the evidence indicated JG Boston is an innocent bystander.
Other than that, the theory that JG Boston is a Patsy is rock solid.
BTW, Why not accept that JG Boston is Elvis Presley, having returned on his flying saucer from a distant galaxy to retrieve Lee’s cat?
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 4:41 pm
“So far, all the evidence indicates that JG Boston is Jenay=Nikki= etc.
At this time none of the evidence indicated JG Boston is an innocent bystander.”
lamchopsl – Those conclusions are as firm as the evidence that Lee is not Dan Wolfe.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 4:53 pm
WWOD?
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 4:56 pm
Interesting tidbit that popped out at me from neals smear of me at KOS from link posted (#253, surreal)
Hushmail account mentioned–”And one final thing … the person or persons behind the hushmail account that knew so much about Mike Stack?”
Comment by goatsred — 7/1/2011 @ 5:01 pm
The left hate the truth like they hate bush.
Comment by DohBiden — 7/1/2011 @ 5:05 pm
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 2:18 pm
Yes,he certainly was cocky to ascertain that the FBI would swoop in on me because he said I tampered with AW’s social accounts.
It was also against the law to utter a false document and to post it there making it seem like I had committed a felony.
Comment by goatsred — 7/1/2011 @ 5:06 pm
if someone was presurgical transgendered, would that make more or less likely that the person had some emotional issues….like JG from Boston perhaps? Just askin…don’t know.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 5:18 pm
318. Interesting tidbit that popped out at me from neals smear of me at KOS from link posted (#253, surreal)
When I listened to Mr. Stranahan’s radio show talking about JP@NYT and how she was trying to deflect away from the topic, this whole Kos diary came back to me- so I hunted it down. Re-reading it, it amazed me at all the dots it could potentially connect.
All of this made me break down and get a twitter acct, for the love of…*sigh*. Not that I know what to *do* with it lol
Comment by surreal — 7/1/2011 @ 5:25 pm
The calvary to the rescue!!!
Lee, I have been defending your sorry arse for the better part of this afternoon.
There seems to be an element here that believes the Jenny George in Boston may not be the person who called you.
Did Jen Preston independently confirm that the Jenny George she talked to lives in Boston? Did that person Preston talked to admit that she set up the starchild111 twitter account?
From reading your blog, and listening to your broadcasts, it appears to me that you take this as fact.
You could certainly cut through a whole bunch of chatter here if you could just definitively clear up this one question.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 5:27 pm
@Mike#318, 320
Playing fair does not seem to be in his vocabulary. He has judged and
convictedslandered you in front of a huge crowd of people. I think you need to talk to Patterico or some of the other lawyers here about that action. He can get away with it when its directed at Breitbart, but you are not a public figure. He’s raising up a vigilante gang.What made this guy so angry? You can be committed to a cause without wanting to burn the world down.
@surreal
I am glad that you found it. It tends to make the picture snap into focus. It may not answer all the questions about Jenny but it certainly makes me believe neal has his hands in this mess somewhere.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 5:28 pm
318. goatsred
I noticed that also. I had never heard of Hushmail before these death threats, but then I am not a professional blackmailer.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 5:30 pm
@nancydrew #321
Where did you get that rumor?
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 5:35 pm
320. goatsred
If Neal Douchehauser has publicaly defamed you, can’t you sue him for libel? Discovery in a civil lawsuit could be a bitch for him. I’m sure there are Right leaning lawyers who would be tripping over themselves to handel such a case, pro bono.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 5:36 pm
“There seems to be an element here that believes the Jenny George in Boston may not be the person who called you.
Did Jen Preston independently confirm that the Jenny George she talked to lives in Boston? Did that person Preston talked to admit that she set up the starchild111 twitter account?”
lamchopsl – To be fair, there are a number of claims which you have been attempting to defend, not limited to the above, which are not actually supported by evidence apart from statements by one or more players involved at this point. With no disrespect, your difficulty seems to be in comprehending what constitutes independently verifiable evidence as opposed to hearsay.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 5:38 pm
Lamchopsl, I am wondering if the Jenny George who called Lee is the same Jenny George who filed a police report.
If I understand the timing (and I’m not sure I do), it is possible (not at all a certainty) that the woman who called Lee and identified herself as Jenny George knew of the threats because she’d been part of making them.
Which would at least cut out one tangle in this mess of action and interaction, people, threats, puppets and possible lies.
Again, this is not certainty. It’s a possibility, and one which makes the field a little less messy.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 5:43 pm
I’ve yet to see which alleged lies in the JG call to Lee are proven by actual evidence.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 5:44 pm
326. no rumor. Laurelai is a self confessed transgenered person who is presurgical. Don’t get the reason for your question.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 5:44 pm
Oops, I left out the rest of it – the woman, JG, who received the threats and went to the police, is a bystander.
It cuts the risky behavior factor quite sharply.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 5:45 pm
We still don’t have the times of these events:
– The 6/19 teary call Lee received from a JG
– That same JG has call(s) with Preston at Lee’s suggestion
– Lee’s 6/20 radio show in which he describes call details (probably right after midnight)
– Any internet posts, comments, tweets etc. that Lee or others made regarding receiving call from JG
– A real JG from Boston files police report at BPD precinct.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/1/2011 @ 5:47 pm
Are we going to have another Séance to contact Neal tonight? I’m still waiting for the rapping on the table and rattling of pans to begin. Another document flash of somebody’s driving records.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 5:49 pm
lamchopsl – Have you also been commenting as Temper Tantrum today?
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 5:49 pm
Nancydrew, because before you mentioned this person, no one had mentioned him/her at all.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 5:50 pm
“Are we going to have another Séance to contact Neal tonight?”
bmertz – I think I still have a Magic 8 Ball around someplace if that would help.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 5:50 pm
bmertz, if we do, do you want to sit next to me?
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 5:51 pm
daleyrocks, we could probably create a makeshift ouija board out of random tweets, or something.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 5:52 pm
“So it’s Friday, and I’m not going out shooting with my boyfriend.”
Dianna – Have him tweet you his junk instead. Anthony Weiner told me chicks dig that stuff.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 5:53 pm
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 5:44 pm #331
We had a miscommunication Nancy. I thought you were referring to Jenny. Obviously to have access to that sort of knowledge would be rather significant here.
Your article is the first time I have been introduce to Lorelai. I don’t know a great deal about her outside of what I read.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 5:54 pm
328. daleyrocks
Thanks for clearing this point up for me. Since I had no reason to believe otherwise, I was assuming that your questions regarded facts, evidence and logical conclusions.
But you make no counter arguments nor cite no evidence, you merely make general personal accusations against me.
When I ask Lee to clear up one of your central objections, you, before even hearing Lee’s response, reject as insufficient to clear my reputation.
Now that it is clear that you seem to want to simply attack me personally, I will henceforth ignore you.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 5:55 pm
Dianna
Yes, I’m scaaarrred of ghosties
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 5:55 pm
goatsred – Serious question. I understand why you are PO’d at PatriotUSA, but in the time you guys were fooling around together as bornfree or whatever, did you ever have any indication that he was not a conservative or that he was a sock.
I ask, because I find most liberals cannot successfully impersonate a conservative for any length of time because they just don’t understand how we think. You see it with liberal trolls on blogs attempting to fool people. They invariably slip up because they are idiots or too indoctrinated with liberal Kool Aid about conservatives they put their feet in their mouths.
Did you see any hints of that with your interactions with Patriot to justify all the suspicion being cast his way?
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 5:56 pm
Anyone want to volunteer to start channeling Neal? anybody? anybody? No volunteers?
sigh
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 5:58 pm
There, there! You can hold my hand, then.
G. K. Chesterton, when asked if he believed in ghosts, replied, “No; but I’m scared of them!”
An eminently sensible answer.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 5:59 pm
“But you make no counter arguments nor cite no evidence, you merely make general personal accusations against me.”
lamchopsl – Please point out a personal attack or accusation other than what I tried to explain in #328.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 5:59 pm
My brain is quite an odd enough place already, thank you.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 6:00 pm
“nor cite no evidence”
lamchopsl – If there is no evidence to cite, that’s a problem, isn’t it? You are really not paying close enough attention to what I have actually said.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 6:02 pm
JG from Boston and Laurelai? Hmmm….just curious.
Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 6:03 pm
“I will henceforth ignore you”
Does that count as a flounce? Anybody?
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 6:03 pm
I think everyone is so stressed out and tired from working on this investigation (for weeks) that it is beginning to take its toll between people who normally have a lot in common. I’ve noticed that people sound frustrated and appear worn to the bone. I think this mystery will be cracked if we can be patient with each other. Meanwhile some of you need to get away from the computers and go do something fun to kick off the stress. Insight breaks lose with you aren’t so wound up.
========End of bmertz’s unsolicited advice ========
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 6:10 pm
335. daleyrocks
347. daleyrocks
Since you don’t seem to grasp what I am talking about here, let me make this as clear as possible:
Fuck You.
Got it?
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 6:12 pm
Dianna
I am glad to know that when times are truely dark, you will be there to stand beside me
I am honored and touched
sniff
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 6:13 pm
No, it wasn’t “goodbye, cruel blog! You have abused me for the last time! You will regret it, when I am gone, just see if you don’t!”
It was purely someone who’s not happy with you, today.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 6:14 pm
@Nancydrew
Who was that interesting visitor earlier. She/he made some Very intriguing comments about patriot in the thread.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 6:19 pm
Lamb — I gave a long answer. It’s here.
http://leestranahan.com/weinergate-where-in-the-world-is-socky-puppet
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 6:25 pm
daley-Excuse me for inserting myself into the fight. I was trying to help calm everyone down, not upset you more. I have noticed an increase of tension among all the commenters and it concerned me.
Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 6:26 pm
From Lew Hunter’s website:
In North Dakota.
Comment by MayBee — 7/1/2011 @ 6:30 pm
329. Dianna
I hear you. I think Lee has been kind of sloppy as he tries to flesh out this story. His use of language is somewhat imprecise, he tends to jump around and digress onto tangents and he either intentionally or unintentionally doesn’t put out all the facts, even when they aren’t any kind of big deal.
He does, however, seem to be responsive to the comments on this site. I’ve found he often address these these questions on his radio blog. Here’s to hoping he clears up these simple points.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 6:31 pm
Sorry. In Nebraska.
Comment by MayBee — 7/1/2011 @ 6:31 pm
MayBee – Hunter lives in Nebraska, where the N on the Cornhusker football helmets stands for Nowledge!
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 6:37 pm
Lee has been more than responsive, and I’m not criticizing him or anyone.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 6:38 pm
MayBee? That is…interesting. Have you put it over on Lee’s blog? He has a new post up, and it might make it easier for him to see it.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 6:39 pm
So….
There’s a real UCLA prof’s website, and a sock UCLA prof for JP and LS to speak to on the phone? Why is the same not true for JG– a real person, but not the person who’s spoken to LS and JP. Who else is real but faked? The Boston detective?
This is not normal sockpuppet stuff. They are being careful to find somebody real they can co-opt before putting themselves out there. Doing so gives them cover for a while before everyone sorts out the mess. That implies the availability of resources to employ for this purpose.
Comment by CausticConservative — 7/1/2011 @ 6:40 pm
koam started to talk it out.
Suppose JG, a real person, has an unused starchild111 account that gets co-opted and contains some personal information that makes it possible for an identity thief to impersonate her.
Is it possible no one has spoken to the ACTUAL JG who created the account yet? To ask if her account has seen activity unknown to her?
Comment by CausticConservative — 7/1/2011 @ 6:45 pm
357. Lee Stranahan
Thanks for taking the time to make this clear.
It seems to me that the detective’s reference to the Mrs. Hunter means the Jenny George he spoke with is the one both you and Jen Preston talked to.
The Dan Wolfe Massachusetts connections are one more weight toward the Jenny George=Patriot conclusion. That seems to be getting closer every day.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 6:48 pm
The site for Lew Hunter’s intensive course says he’s in Nebraska.
For some reason, I was thinking Prof. Emeritus Hunter was in Southern California.
Having read the site at least once before, how come I didn’t notice that?
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 6:49 pm
Maybe I’ve been watching too many spy thrillers. It’s obvious we are being screwed with, just would be nice to know who and why.
Although we might discover that the who and why to be totally unsatisfying in the end.
It’s been interesting to follow.
Comment by CausticConservative — 7/1/2011 @ 6:50 pm
I phoned Lew Hunter in Nebraska.
Who is Caustic Conservative? Can anyone vouch for them?
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 6:52 pm
We have four people who are real and identified beyond any reasonable doubt — Jenny George, Lew Hunter and his wife, and Detective Thornton.
But Caustic Conservative seems to want to convince people that these real people are (somehow) fake.
So I ask — who is CC and why do they want to foist this lunacy on people?
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 6:55 pm
345. Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 5:58 pm
Anyone want to volunteer to start channeling Neal? anybody? anybody? No volunteers?
I’ll have to take a pass. I may be from the Lunatic Lair, but, there are some flavors of lid flippage that go beyond Beyond, right smack into Over Yonder. Ol’ Sinister lands square in BFE.
Comment by surreal — 7/1/2011 @ 6:56 pm
#370 – Lee – It’s more that we’ve started to doubt the reality of anyone who isn’t sitting in the family room with us at this exact instant.
I’m not entirely kidding.
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 7:01 pm
WHO ARE YOU, Caustic Conservative!!!
All who doubt must be outed! All who doubt must have aspersions cast upon them!
Comment by The Freaking Mob — 7/1/2011 @ 7:02 pm
Who is ‘The Freaking Mob’?
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 7:05 pm
“We have four people who are real and identified beyond any reasonable doubt — Jenny George, Lew Hunter and his wife, and Detective Thornton.”
Lee – Respectfully, I disagree.
We have a person claiming to be Jenny George that you and Jen Preston have spoken with.
We have a Jenny George that Det. Thornton interviewed in response to her complaint.
Where is the hard evidence establishing they are the same person? We have no physical descriptions. We have professors remembering a JG but no assurance it is the same person. Could they have taught more than one JG? Was that question asked?
I’m not asking to create “lunacy”. Just remember that TommyX got punked with fake ID. I’d rather have it nailed down than leap to conclusions.
I’m also missing that Nikki/Patriot connection you see lurking.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 7:05 pm
LOL.
I’m nobody.
Just a random Patterico reader who seldom posts.
I don’t read the entire threads all the time. I don’t follow twitter at all, so I am missing a bunch of details apparently.
Didn’t mean to throw you off the trail!
Comment by CausticConservative — 7/1/2011 @ 7:07 pm
OMG.
It just occurred to me that maybe…
I’M
NOT
ME!
Comment by CausticConservative — 7/1/2011 @ 7:10 pm
371. Lee Stranahan
Gennette Cordova
At least knowing she is real separates her from the Sockpuppet Posse, making it one less problem to solve.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 7:11 pm
I think Lee’s theory is probably the most accurate. Plus, he he has the most solid leads (police report) to follow up on.
This Neal guys possible involvement is troubling but maybe he is just trying to be a headache to those trying to break the story wide open.
Comment by Noodles — 7/1/2011 @ 7:12 pm
Neal is an idiot.
But Neal is not Nikki / Patriot.
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 7:17 pm
Daley,
The evidence is in commonality of the statements from the woman who I spoke to and the woman who the police spoke to.
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 7:18 pm
Lee,
From what I’ve seen the threatener may be a completely separate story. She could be JG threatening herself and everybody else, but s/he could also be somebody else? Any insight?
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 7:23 pm
Lee? Is the commonality more than Prof. Hunter and his wife? And UCLA? (Which, by your account, is a lie).
Comment by Dianna — 7/1/2011 @ 7:25 pm
384. Dianna
If I may presume to interject.
The fact that JG mentioned the Hunters to Jen Preston and to the detective is the argument. What are the chances that the real JG would mention the hunters to the detective and someone else falsely claiming to e JG would mention the Hunters to Jen Preston?
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 7:34 pm
lamb is correct…
Plus other elements of the story — the mention of me. Of ‘followers’ — a fake JG would change her story to ‘followers’, why exactly?
Seriously — this isn’t rocket science. It’s not weird. The simple answer is simple — the woman on the phone filed the police report.
Has anyone contacted me to clear it up?
Just think this stuff through…what are the logical consequences?
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 7:38 pm
Also — the detective is closing the case as ‘unfounded’ he told me.
What does that tell you?
I mean — “nothing” if you want to believe the exceptionally complicated conspiracy theory.
But it’s sure consistent with the story I’m telling.
BTW – has anyone asked Patterico if he heard the hoaxster theory from Reid or Wolfe?
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 7:40 pm
Lee says John Reid is fake and JG is real.
Pat says JG is fake and John Reid is real.
Any wonder why random comments thread readers might get a little confused?
Comment by CausticConservative — 7/1/2011 @ 7:49 pm
It seems to me that unless JG decides to come clean the only way this whole intrigue will be resolved is if JG is the threatener and law enforcement unravels it with subpoenas of twitter and ISPs. If it turns out that someone else is the threatener, we may never definitively know who Dan wolf is,
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 7:50 pm
“The evidence is in commonality of the statements from the woman who I spoke to and the woman who the police spoke to.”
Lee – I agree there is wicked commonality, I am just looking for more than commonality. The AGW fanatic believe correlation equals causation. I think they’re full of sh*t because they don’t fully understand our climate system and expect more evidence before sending our economy back to the stone age.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 7:52 pm
Anybody know if Pattero or Ace have filed criminal complaints over the threats. Once it goes across state lines the FBI comes in, if I am not mistaken. Then it becomes a federal case.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 7:54 pm
“Also — the detective is closing the case as ‘unfounded’ he told me.”
Thanks. More new information.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 7:54 pm
You are taking Preston’s remarks to Lee out of context if you think she was trying
to persuade
him Hunter’s website was fake. that’s not what she said or meant at all.
She was warning him of the possibilites of an anonymous- style punk. She didn’t say the website was fake or appeared to be fake, she said she did not [at that moment] take for granted it was genuine. A prudent reservation that was, considering what has been going on with socks and the natural history of Encylopedia dramatica hijinks. This is not the stuff of black helicopters, it’s more a suspicion that silly drama is afoot.
Lees caller is a liar, check; lees caller is or is not a Jenny George known by lew hunter, claimed but not double checked.
That checking needs to happen
Comment by Sarahw — 7/1/2011 @ 8:10 pm
“The fact that JG mentioned the Hunters to Jen Preston and to the detective is the argument.”
lamchopsl – Can you please refresh my memory where the Hunter/Detective connection was discussed?
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 8:11 pm
“Lees caller is a liar, check; lees caller is or is not a Jenny George known by lew hunter, claimed but not double checked.
That checking needs to happen”
SarahW – I don’t understand why that is such a stratospherically difficult concept for some people to understand, but it apparently is, because they accuse you of fomenting lunacy when you raise it.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 8:14 pm
“Once it goes across state lines the FBI comes in, if I am not mistaken.”
I think it gets even worse if a telephone was used. And with people being able to use telephones to send email/tweet, they have to be really careful. A lot of people don’t realize that the laws can be different if a phone is involved.
Comment by crosspatch — 7/1/2011 @ 8:32 pm
393. Sarahw
The Boston detective spoke to JG.
Lee said, “The Detective also mentioned to me that he had spoken to Mrs. Hunter”:
http://leestranahan.com/weinergate-where-in-the-world-is-socky-puppet
During their phone call, the person claiming to be JG referred Jen Preston to the Hunters. Jen later gave the hunters number to Lee and he called them also.
What are the chances that the real JG would refer the detective to the Hunters and that a person falsely claiming to be JG would refer Jen Preston to the Hunters?
Ergo: JG Boston set up the starchild111 account as she claimed and as was indicated by the account name.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/1/2011 @ 8:38 pm
This isn’t really anything but there is a starchild111 Youtube account. Looks abandoned.
There is also a one for user/jennifergeorge subscribed to UCLA but I think that is the wrong ones channel.
No user/jenaygeorge
Comment by Noodles — 7/1/2011 @ 9:00 pm
Out of all the people in all the world she could have picked–why do you suppose Boston JG chose the Hunters–the out of state Hunters– to be the ones that she referred several perfect strangers to for an endorsement? Did she warn/alert the Hunters ahead of time I wonder? And what arrangements had she made with them to give them permission to discuss her, or what explanation did she give the Hunters for needing this service, I wonder.
Comment by elissa — 7/1/2011 @ 9:08 pm
“The Detective also mentioned to me that he had spoken to Mrs. Hunter, so I believe that reference must have come from Ms. George.”
Thanks. Unless I am mistaken, this is more new information revealed today. That establishes a good connection.
Again, stuff like this would have made a stronger case earlier. Why hold back on it?
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 9:12 pm
I’m just sleuthing (see Google) and see she won some MA film thingie. Says she’s from Quincy, MA.
Comment by Noodles — 7/1/2011 @ 9:13 pm
“And what arrangements had she made with them to give them permission to discuss her, or what explanation did she give the Hunters for needing this service, I wonder.”
elissa – More interestingly, why was it necessary to have the police call anybody on her behalf?
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 9:14 pm
Idk, maybe that’s the one with the Twitter account maybe? Is she the suspect or some other Jennifer George?
Comment by Noodles — 7/1/2011 @ 9:17 pm
Noodles — I saw that but there are 8 Jennifer Georges around Boston
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 9:17 pm
No, Preston clearly thought that the website and Lew Hunter and his wife were all possibly fake. We argued about this point, which I was stunned by.
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 9:19 pm
==there are 8 Jennifer Georges around Boston==
Oh good allah.
Comment by elissa — 7/1/2011 @ 9:20 pm
New Braintree and Andover, MA look like the closest in age (if that is correct).
Comment by Noodles — 7/1/2011 @ 9:25 pm
I’m not going to hypothesize on women who live in or near Boston.
The Police have her address. That works for me.
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 9:49 pm
Radio show — 1e 12c 11m 10p
So, 10 minutes from now.
http://tobtr.com/s/2050777
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/1/2011 @ 9:51 pm
Lee,
I have to agree with you on the recent odd behavior of Jennifer Preston. It should be very easy to verify the Lew Hunter aspect. Just a quick look at his web site provides lots of clues that he appears to be a real money making individual.
He just completed a retreat on June 24 so maybe we can get someone to verify that he was seen there in Superior NE.
JP should have the resouces to verify Lew in less than 30 minutes.
With your latest Blog Talk show, I am now updated on your views concerning Jenny George. I still don’t see the upside to her or anyone filing a Police report in Boston. It just up’s the story rather then hoping it just dies quietly on the internet.
So that leaves me with the question: What is the next step when you turn on your phone after a good weekend rest?
Joe
Comment by Joe Smith — 7/1/2011 @ 11:13 pm
As long as a bunch of commenters I never heard of before agree, that is what matters.
Pay no attention to the way an alternate theory explains everything.
Hi, Neal!
Comment by Patterico — 7/1/2011 @ 11:24 pm
Patterico , how does your theory explain everything?
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/2/2011 @ 12:17 am
Lee left us a rabbit hole to search based this tweet:
Is this the face of Qritiq?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28747007@N00/
Joe
Comment by Joe Smith — 7/2/2011 @ 2:07 am
There is a real ball of socks in this dresser drawer!
Patterico’s theory is that 1) Lee’s hysterical caller was a hoaxer claiming to be Jennifer George (MA). This hoaxer may or may not be in league with 2) A male hoaxer who threatened the real JG MA and claimed to be Lee.
Real JG MA calls the police and Lee gets a call from them.
Points against #1 seem to be that Lee is fairly certain that hysterical caller is the same as JG MA, due to “commonalities” that seem indicative but not dispositive. But as Patterico says, even if #1 is wrong, #2 is not dependent.
#2, that somebody actually threatened JG MA and claimed to be Lee (or one of his “followers”…all hail Lee!!!) is a hypothesis that yields a lot of good areas of thought.
First off, if there had been no threats made against JG MA, and yet she still filed a police report (which I assume Patterico has verified), then she’s engaging in very risky and stupid behavior. I think it makes much more sense that a threat was actually made.
If a threat was made, we know it wasn’t Lee (all hail Lee!!!) so it must have been an imposter, some sort of political shit-stirrer. And the primary suspect seems to be “Neal”, a shit-stirrer with a long reach and a short stick.
The email threats to Ace and Patterico made by Alicia Pain may be related, of course, but Ace and Patterico are wisely maintaining radio silence on what is an ongoing police investigation, so lets leave this out for now.
Now, on its face, this is two or three levels removed from the dicpic, but considering all the socks it may not be. These two narratives (hysterical caller is a phony / real threats by phony Lee) are just two pieces in the puzzle.
Patterico, have I restated your post back to you correctly?
Comment by Pious Agnostic — 7/2/2011 @ 4:22 am
The date on that post was intentionally wrong.
Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/2/2011 @ 4:38 am
Patterico has not said that John Reid is real.
Comment by slp — 7/2/2011 @ 4:59 am
404
Yes, Lee, she thought them all possibly fake, as she should have with the amount of information she had. Failing to check would be inexcusable, but circumspection at first very reasonable.
You were certain all was resolved, she was not. Some loose ends remain.
If you really spoke to the person who took classes from Lew hunter, I will think it.ll but reolved myself, but I don’t know whether the woman in Boston is actually a foamier screenwriting student.
Comment by Sarahw — 7/2/2011 @ 5:35 am
This story has now officially transcended the realm of the mundane political conspiracy theory tinged with sinister overtones of of death-hackers like Anonymous and the Yes men. It is now firmly ensconced in bizarre and inscrutable hyper-real metrocosm of Van Nuys:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Van_Nuys_Boulevard_Street_Scene.JPG
My proof, you might ask? Consider the fact that Lee ‘s twitter account has been co-opted. By a banker!
http://twitter.com/#!/Stranahan
Be afraid. Be very afraid, my friends.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/2/2011 @ 5:50 am
That’s putting too dark a facetious spin on it, Lamchop1.
Lulz can be “deadly” I guess but mainly its just making fools of people.
Comment by SarahW — 7/2/2011 @ 6:12 am
“Foamier screenwriting student”
I hate you, Ipad auto-correct.
Comment by SarahW — 7/2/2011 @ 6:13 am
Please take a look at this blog post that Lee posted earlier today.
http://qritiq.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/look-a-likes/
I don’t know yet how he came across it.
The top photo is a match for a Jennifer George, Boston facebook profile
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1104744369
While the 2nd and 3rd are Nikki Reed the actress (it says) and J-Lo, both of whom have rich histories with @starchild111.
The home page for the qritiq blog has a weather widget with ZIP 11576, Roslyn, NY (a suburb of NYC on Long Island). Other stories in the blog are related to NYC and Long Island.
The page notes: “Look-alikes?” (sic) “Is it just me or do these ladies look somewhat similar?” (for Jennifer George, Boston and Nikki Reed, actress) and “Maybe more like this:” for Jennifer Lopez.
This is dated June 30, 2010 and filed under “politics.”
How darn odd is all that?
Thoughts?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 6:20 am
418. sarahw
Too dark a facetious a spin?!??
This from the author of, “Foamier screenwriting student”?
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/2/2011 @ 6:22 am
414. Lee
What do you mean by that and how do you know?
Can wordpress dates be faked?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 6:29 am
Update: WordPress dates can be modified.
So this qritiq is possibly just someone spoofing.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 6:32 am
#344. Daleyrocks I did not see anything to make me believe that he was anyone other than who he said he was. Of course, I have always used Twitter to post political stuff and my opinions so I only interacted with people on that basis.
I only noted one strange thing: He would never post articles/links. It would always be Weiner news or a reply to something I tweeted.Or a “hello” to everyone RT’d a million times.
So, I guess the answer is no. I took him at face value, considering that I had no interaction with him in “real life”. And I never studied his “act” then. Now I’m more discreet,obviously.
I was very ignorant to this world up until this event took place. It never seemed to be a place where this stuff happened,or somewhere I could get myself embroiled into a scandal like this.
There was a person in our group for awhile, and I’ll leave his name out for right now,who followed our group and RAW. I told Patriot and passed word around to block him. We did but this person does not appear to be a sock,because he still posts and doesnt follow me.If he follows the rest of the group,I do not know but will check.
You can DM me , or I will email Sarah W with the name and you can check him out yourself until we think it’s right to post his name here.
Hope that adds some clarity. If not, fire away .
Comment by goatsred — 7/2/2011 @ 6:34 am
goatsred@423 – Thanks for the response. Some people just don’t know how to post links, but who knows. Hopefully my question my sense to you.
I’m not on twitter, but thank you for the offer.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/2/2011 @ 6:46 am
396 – You presume too much. lchop.
First, I do not dislike Lee’s theory at all and think it is a simple explanation for convoluted shenanigan. If it even matters, I’ve been saying so for some time. However, I think a solid case stands all the kicking you can give it.
Checking would only strengthen, if all is as it seems.
If all is not as it seems, checking could reveal it.
I am saying something different about JG than you seem to be hearing, I think.
I’m saying Lee’s caller, the report-maker, could be a poser.
A poser who refers people to Lew Hunter.
The value of a Lew Hunter reference depends on the strength of certainty that she hasn’t directed people to an accomplice(s)
and that she is actually the student, not jut someone purporting to be.
It means little for [verified] Lew Hunter to say “yes, I know a Jenny George of MA. She has attended my seminars” unless he provides information that Lee’s caller is THAT PARTICULAR Jenny George, as opposed to someone pretending to be that former student.
I would do two things to cross-reference and double-check.
I would contact (If I were going to contact anyone, which I am not) Lew Hunter through his UCLA contact information.
If he were willing to provide himself as a reference for Lee’s caller, (which he might not be) he CAN provide more than information that JG exists.
He might confirm anything from an address from his records to a birthmark on her shoulder; basically any kind of detail that would tie Lee’s caller to Lew’s student.
If LewH is verifiably the speaker and his student verifiably Lee’s caller, then Lee I believe has got at least one party to the hoaxing and probably all of them- all the socks.
If LewH turns out to have been in Argentina the day of Preston/lee’s calls I think that might be significant and imply another hoaxer is in on the game.
At this point it is more difficult to establish that Lee’s caller is really Lew’s student and not just posing as the Jenny George who went to his seminars. Jenny might have cooperated with a request for identifying detail ( if really the student), and the professor might have cooperated more readily before being exposed and worried about implying a student is a fruitcake.
Now, general physical description, sending him a picture, matching up of addresses, the sort of thing available from the detective or the police report, is all that will be obtainable.
But it ought to be checked.
You might think it absolutely outlanding that Lee’s caller would be bold enough to fake being someone else to the point of filing a police report, and meeting an officer at the address she gave.
Take nothing for granted, though, trust no one, because even if it isn’t, the situation has all the hallmarks of an Encyclopedia Dramatic magnet, especially confused and hidden and faked identities. These have already happened, be on your guard for more.
Doesn’t mean there are any, just that double checking is prudent.
Comment by SarahW — 7/2/2011 @ 6:49 am
SarahW – Stop personally attacking lamchopsl. Heh.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/2/2011 @ 6:59 am
I don’t post much because you guys are just much better at this than I. That said.
Goatsred and daily rocks
I’m sure you had no reason to doubt patriot until this why would you. So please DO NOT take this next comment as questioning that. You have been through more than enough.
Just a thought I had yesterday after reading the old DM btwn Patriot and that film guy.
As conservatives or whatever do any of you rant like that? I mean he used the word hate like 50 times? I don’t know it just sounded like someone who thinks they know that conservatives are filled with hate. Patriot wasn’t even in AW district right? I lived in NY, I’ve met his wife (very nice) and I never hated him. More like an annoying fly.
I thought it sounded much more like Simon Sinister.
haha how funny is it every time Patterico says “Hi Neil”
Comment by Blackburnsghost — 7/2/2011 @ 7:09 am
Lambchopsl is smart and cool.
Comment by SarahW — 7/2/2011 @ 7:18 am
Blackburnsghost – Your powers of observation seem strong enough to me.
No it is not normal. It’s a tell – a put-on of rage. Overdoing it, protesting too much, is a feature of the sockwriter and one reason the sockwriting sucks so badly.
Comment by SarahW — 7/2/2011 @ 7:24 am
@Stranahan It just occurred to me that you and @JohnReid9 now agree about Preston. She’s as bad as JR9 says. Interesting.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 7:31 am
Blackburnsghost – That conversation just looked to me like somebody who was accustomed to communicating by IM or tweet.
Also you have to remember the insulting crazy crap personal theories floated about him by people like Stranahan and how he could not possibly been in a position to have been in a position to see Weiner’s tweet which turned out to be absolute BS. Yeah, so I understand the rage.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/2/2011 @ 7:39 am
lamchopsl – Lee admitted on BTR last night that he had not documented things in this story because he had wasted time going down rabbit holes and getting yelled at. It’s a piss poor excuse, but the lack of documentation is what the bulk of bitching is about in this thread and Lee fans it himself when he asks questions people if you think there’s a problem, what’s an alternate explanation. You have a persistent inability as SarahW and I have both pointed out to understand this concept.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/2/2011 @ 7:44 am
Lee – Since you mentioned it on BTR last night, can you be specific about anything that the Reid personas have done that is anti-Weiner? How does that fit with Jenny in Boston being Nikki and being very liberal?
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/2/2011 @ 7:47 am
426. SarahW
OK, so you are acknowledging that Lees caller, the person that Jen Preston talked to and the person who filed the police report and later spoke to the Boston detective are the same person? Do you acknowledge that this person is named Jenny George?
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/2/2011 @ 8:29 am
Lee,
I’m listening to your extended Blog Talk Radio show from last night and have reached a point of confusion on what you’re saying that Preston’s position on why to not pursue the person behind the call you received from Jen George in Boston (who Preston has talked to several times):
1) You said earlier that Preston said that Prof Lew Hunter’s site may be a phony and the prof may have punked Preston/you.
– You disagree. You think Hunter is real and was truthful.
2) You said last night that Preston said that Jen George in Boston’s @startchild111 twitter was hacked so that JG is not responsible for the Weiner activity of Nikki. Preston: “Lee there’s nothing to tie JG into that Nikki Reid account.”
– You disagree. (I don’t think Pru proved that the account was hacked or not hacked. Either could be the case) but you say it was not hacked. You say that Preston buys JG’s story that the account was hacked, “absolutely, hook,line and sinker.”
So in case 1) you say Preston is saying that JG’s evidence (the prof) is fake….so Preston won’t pursue (this goes too deep, she warns you)
And in case 2) you say Preston is saying that JG’s story is true….so Preston won’t pursue.
So I don’t understand how you say Preston both incorrectly disbelieves JG’s story and simultaneously incorrectly believe’s JG’s story.
The only consistent parts are 1) you disagree with Preston on the conclusions to be drawn from the evidence, and 2) Preston is not pursuing the case, no matter what excuse she gives.
Isn’t that a bit messed up?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 8:29 am
Thank you SarahW. I don’t know who the heck Patriot is but it just sounded so “over the top”. Not unlike JReid was so “under the top” *trademark BGhost
For example I have a legitimate reason to be pissed as hell because my community is being systematically
destroyed RIGHT NOW, I literally cried at a recent local parade and I still have never spoken like that. I just went and checked some sites/commentors I follow just to double check the temperature and people are incredulous about various issues but they have a fantastic sense of humor and they are intelligent. Not “I’m not a bright guy” slobber/burp that Patriot also said about 50 times. Ewww I just remembered he kept going on and on about his daughter being a victim even AFTER the film guy told him to stop. Twice.Ugh what? I’m sorry if you are a real person patriot I really am but I can’t help wonder.
Comment by Blackburnsghost — 7/2/2011 @ 8:30 am
Daleyrocks like I said just thinking out loud. I don’t communicate via DM or IM or whatever so I don’t know.
This whole thing is nuts and again if he is a real person I’m sorry for his trouble.
Comment by Blackburnsghost — 7/2/2011 @ 8:32 am
I am dubious about Lee’s theory of separating motives between the personal and the political. For the left, the personal and the political are inseparable, they define people. Just try to have a rational discussion about politics with a liberal and see how personal it becomes for them.
I think it is also a mistake think Lee has been correct or even consistent on his thinking about Dan Wolfe during the course of this story. He has not. I’ll be happy to document it when I return later.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/2/2011 @ 8:41 am
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/2/2011 @ 8:29 am
Who doesn’t acknowledge that the hoaxer(Lee’s Caller) claims to be Jenny George?
Or that (assuming he really spoke to the real Lew Hunter) Lew Hunter had a student named Jenny George?
Comment by SarahW — 7/2/2011 @ 9:01 am
440. SarahW
I am not asking if she claimed to be Jenny George. I am asking you if you acknowledge that that person is named Jenny George. That is, did she identify herself to the detective an Jenny Goerge and the detective confirmed that he was speaking to the person named Jenny George that filed the complaint?
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/2/2011 @ 9:11 am
Koam, I can’t speak for Preston, but I do think she was misunderstood by Lee (as I was).
My read: She was saying she’s not ready to make any declaration of what’s going on based on the information she has.
Not following up with the prof would be inexcusable.
Not getting hold of her personal info from the Police report and checking in to see if the [verified] prof to see if matches his records is another.
Not speaking to the detective would be inexcusable.
Maybe Preston knows something we don’t, and it shapes her opinions. If she doesn’t, maybe general interest in the story has faded so ar he doesn’t want to put in the effort.
Is she the only person in the world who can investigate and gather information and report it?
No. So find out if the story is dropped like a hot potato, if so, stop worrying about what she thinks or does.
Comment by SarahW — 7/2/2011 @ 9:11 am
Lamchopsl, I don’t know if she is Jenny George or someone posing as her.
Comment by SarahW — 7/2/2011 @ 9:13 am
“they define people. Just try to have a rational discussion about politics with a liberal and see how personal it becomes for them.”
Truth
Comment by Blackburnsghost — 7/2/2011 @ 9:17 am
Could we not take that link to the qritiq blog that Lee posted earlier (top photo,unlabeled is same photo as a Jen Preston from Boston on a private Facebook profile) and send it to Prof. Lew Hunter and ask,
And send the same thing to the Detective in Boston?
well, I guess we cannot because that page has now been removed from qritiq. http://qritiq.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/look-a-likes/
but we could use the photo from the facebook profile page (woman in business attire, yellow blouse, under dark jacket, leaning forward into camera, hands on desk)
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 9:27 am
lamchopsl,
I don’t understand your insistence upon treating “understandings” and “acknowledgments” as truth. In pressing SarahW to “acknowledge” certain propositions you are merely insisting she has the same “understanding” as you when the facts are not iron-clad.
As SaraW points out, nobody is saying a police report wasn’t filed or that the person Lee spoke with didn’t claim to be Jenny George. It’s a matter of corroboration. And no, the professor’s phone acknowledgment is not good enough.
We all know who JGCA is. She has a website, a twitter, can be easily contacted, and has a work history that can be verified. And the only reason she is caught up in this is because of the ghost of JGMA (beyond a name, we do not know who she is). How do we know the professor didn’t have JGCA in mind when he verified her existence?
Comment by Crispian — 7/2/2011 @ 9:33 am
koam,
I still see the picture in google cache. Was that page created by Ms. Lipton? Despite the nearly exactly one year ago date on it, the picture caption is “JG?” and is tagged as “politics.”
Comment by Crispian — 7/2/2011 @ 9:35 am
Anybody out there please correct me if I am wrong, but when you walk into a police station and say, “Hello, my name is Daffy Duck, and I’d like to file a complaint against Lee Stranahan for threatening to kill me.”
The Desk Sargent politely replies, “We’d be happy to take your complaint Mr. Duck, if you would please just fill out this form. Oh, and by the way, may I see your identification?”
And when the decetive goes out to interview the person making the complaint, he also asks for identification to ensure he is talking to the person who made the complaint.
So here’s my next question: if you believe the person who called Lee and Jen Preston and filed the police complaint and then spoke with the detective isn’t really named Jenny George, then isn’t it reasonable to assume that this person has some sort of serious identification, such as a drivers license or passport, that identifies her as Jenny George?
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/2/2011 @ 9:36 am
lamchopsl,
It’s reasonable to assume, but I’m sure one doesn’t need identification. (“Sorry ma’am, I don’t care what crime you want to report, no ID, no investigation.”)
But again, it’s a matter of knowing it was the same person that Lee spoke with and if it was, then determining who that person is beyond a mere name.
Comment by Crispian — 7/2/2011 @ 9:42 am
At work bored.
Just read this http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/28/989469/-Disingenuous-Chart,-Dishonest-DA-(Weinergate)?via=search
Stranded Wind=Marooned Fart? High and dry gas bag?
Again just thinking out loud…whistling minding my own business.
Comment by Blackburnsghost — 7/2/2011 @ 9:56 am
446. Crispian
There are no iron-clad facts. There are only degrees of certainty. JGCA could be an elaborate hoax also. You cannot be 100% certain that the person standing in front of you in the grocery store check out line isn’t a visitor from another space-time continuum.
The reason I am using words like acknowledge is I am trying to find out the level of certainty that is required for someone with whom I am talking to say something is, as you say, an iron-clad fact.
If the guy in line behind me in the grocery store check out line starts asking me to prove that I am not a visitor from another space-time continuum, I might rightfully expect that men in white coats toss a butterfly net over him. And if people on this forum start contacting people to exclude extremely unlikely conspiracy hypotheses, they might expect the same response.
If you read JGCA’s Weinerpage she seems to think everybody on this forum is a crazy conspiracy theorist. I would argue that she is wrong, some people on this forum are not.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/2/2011 @ 10:04 am
448 lamchopsl
that sounds right.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 10:07 am
447 Crispian
You’re referring to my 445.
I don’t know who Ms. Lipton is.
The qritiq blog page was, Lee says, intentionally mis-dated a year earlier. I tested and you can mis-date posts on wordpress.
So its value is much less if it was just posted yesterday with some photo found online by searching “jennifer george boston” ( I found same photo a week ago that way). If it had really been posted a year ago on same page with Nikki Reed and J-Lo then that was gonna be big news. Lee spread it, not sure why. but he was asking who owned the blog…so perhaps the blogger was up to a little misdirection because of that fake date.
The blog has a weather widget with the ZIP for Roslyn, NY (long island).
The photo I would consider entirely random, one of many candidates. It could be emailed to Prof and Detective for some level of corrobroation…so if another photo of same lady shows up elsewhere we will know we are looking at the one who took courses and/or filed police reports. That would be real information.
But in the interim
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 10:13 am
Please take a look at this blog post …http://qritiq.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/look-a-likes/
Geez, all this time, and no one ever once mentioned that she was a babe. I might have actually paid attention.
Jenny, if you’re out there, I’ve got Sox tickets. We’ll get some Fenway franks and forget about the whole Weinie thing. Later we can help Norm tweet random body parts to strangers. It’ll be fun.
You know where to find me. (The place where every one knows – oh wait, never mind that part).
Cheers,
Sammy
Comment by Sam Malone — 7/2/2011 @ 10:24 am
witter,
You mean this picture?
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/23073_1104744369_8766_n.jpg
The link for this FB page was sent to Lee on June 27 by @lanelipton on twitter
Joe
Comment by Joe Smith — 7/2/2011 @ 10:27 am
420 kill me now.
Comment by SarahW — 7/2/2011 @ 10:31 am
Name goes with the blog. Was she just guessing? Seems so. Wouldn’t be terrible to show the detective, however.
Comment by SarahW — 7/2/2011 @ 10:32 am
This is a bit of an aside but has anyone looked at RBrynaert twitter today? So weird
also I’m not getting the connection with this picture?
Comment by Blackburnsghost — 7/2/2011 @ 10:36 am
If you don’t think some caution about JGMA’s identity is necessary in a context where it is supposed the hoaxer (lees caller) is a liar, and a liar who fakes identities and identification documents, you are silly.
Comment by SarahW — 7/2/2011 @ 10:39 am
If you don’t think some caution about JGMA’s identity is necessary in a context where it is supposed the hoaxer (lees caller) is a liar, and a liar who fakes identities and identification documents, you are silly.
Yes, it’s entirely possible that JGMA is just a victim. And if that’s the case then JGCA’s point about “veering into potential vigilantism” is really not that far off the mark. In any case, caution certainly can do no harm.
It’s entirely possible that JGMA is:
1) The person in the writing class
2) The person who filed the police report
But is NOT:
1) The person who called Lee
2) The SockPuppeteer
3) Alicia Pain, (et al.)
It’s also possible that she could even be the SockPuppeteer (which may be marignally unethical, but is certainly not illegal) and still be in no other way involved.
Comment by piglet — 7/2/2011 @ 11:03 am
A)I believe the woman who called Lee on 6/19 claimed to be Jenny George. I do not believe Lee lies.
B)I believe the woman filing a police report in Boston some time between 6/19 and 6/26 claiming she had received death threats from Lee Stranahan also claimed to be named Jenny George.
lamchopsl A therefore = B
Daley, SarahW, koam show your work to prove claim A=B
Stranahan on BTR radio last night – I have been too busy going down rabbit holes and getting yelled at to document my work.
lamchopsl A=B
Shoot me now.
Stranahan – If you don’t think I’ve proved my conclusion, suggest an alternate rational explanation.
Stranahan – Why are you people suggesting crazy alternate scenarios?
Stranahan
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/2/2011 @ 11:06 am
The order at the end got a little garbled there.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/2/2011 @ 11:07 am
458. Blackburnsghost
I noticed the same thing earlier but got sidetracked. Pure paranoia, plus it looks like people are eschewing him. That’s understandable given his recent strange behavior. He seem to be lashing out at everybody trying to get anybody to contact him. If it isn’t drug induced, it’s classic clinical.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/2/2011 @ 11:12 am
Any metadata in those pics that might offer clues?
Comment by crosspatch — 7/2/2011 @ 11:12 am
Well, one obvious sign that the blog post dated 6/30/2010 is suspect relates to the filename of the Jennifer Lopez image:
But all that dated filename proves is that the post has been edited after or around April 2011. Has anyone else found any other indicators for that post’s actual date?
Comment by h2u — 7/2/2011 @ 11:20 am
h2u
It is a blatant misdate. Most probably only the year is changed from 2011 to 2010. Biggest clue as to the lacking merit is that the person used “JG?” as the picture’s title (when you hover over it). Clearly the person isn’t sure and may have just found the picture in the same manner as koam a week ago.
Comment by Crispian — 7/2/2011 @ 11:26 am
Crispian, I am absolutely convinced you’re correct — but this whole investigation has been marred by the lack of convincing proof for a significant amount of “known facts.” The more clear-cut evidence we have, the better.
Comment by h2u — 7/2/2011 @ 11:28 am
I have been following this story more closely in the last few weeks than I’d admit to anyone outside the circle of this readership. The story and sleuthing by Lee et al brought me to this blog which I didn’t read otherwise. I am intrigued as much by the characters and dynamics as the motivation and actions. I can’t wait to get home and see what happened while I was gone. “Yes,” I whisper, “I am a weineraholic.”
I’ve spent the last few days trying to get the story and mystery clear in my head—no easy task when post comments hit the 400+ mark. I am sketchy on some of the conversations and who did what as weinergate was unfolding so perhaps amid work this holiday weekend, I’ll jump back and refresh myself. I am not sure there are answers there but I fear my addiction will force me to return. Until then.. I have defined for myself what I care about.. and what I don’t.
Here are the questions that I don’t find relevant to my understanding:
1.Is the professor/Lew Hunter real? – or more accurately is he who/what he’s presented as. First of all, I find it odd that a character (or real person) would offer up a professor as verification of his/her authenticity. I was pretty close with a handful of my professors and advisors—in very small schools/programs and never would it occur to me, even while enrolled, to use a professor to say I am who I say I am. When I need to prove I am who I say I am, I use proper ID– a DL, a passport. My bank isnt likely to take the word of my professor, my friend or my own mother. They want real identification to link my person to my action.
Secondly, he’s not really provided any real information. Perhaps some insight—but even if he is real and does know the same JG who is believed to have been operating the Nikki Reid accounts, who contacted Lee and who reported death threats to BPD, his impression is still subjective and based on limited interaction. We’re not talking an old family friend here—we’re talking a professor—a leader of a workshop. Where he would be of great value is if someone had a photo of the JG who made the police report—or of screen capture of a skype convo JG as she was talking to Lee. That photo doesn’t exist as far as I know. It’s in the “wouldn’t it be great if we had … “ bucket. Without it– LH serves no purpose.
OK.. there was only one. It feels like there should be more that doesnt matter.
Comment by eman — 7/2/2011 @ 11:35 am
I agree h2u. I think every bit of evidence needs to be taken with a grain of salt as any piece can be misdirection by a troll. That is why so many of us are skeptical about the identity of JGMA. Even assuming Lee is absolutely right that JG is JG is JG…is she relevant to the story or not? Why aren’t we finding that that out if we know who she is?
I think there is a split between those who think this mystery can be solved in a linear fashion, taking evidence at face value; and those of us who are happy to leave everything up in the air until it all snaps into place, letting any extraneous bits of information then fall away.
I’m a mere spectator but it does seem wise to follow the latter route. But in any event, both Poirot and Scooby Doo solved mysteries in their own way – even though the latter sometimes involved pulling off mask after mask.
Comment by Crispian — 7/2/2011 @ 11:44 am
461. daleyrocks
Would be great to have the actual timing of the list of events that I posted earlier.
Evidence that A=B might include that JG gave JP the name of Prof Lew Hunter and also gave that to Detective (perhaps to desk sergeant?) but without timing, we don’t know if she could have learned of the Lew Hunter referral from Lee online before naming Lew Hunter to BPD.
Same goes for other things Lee said JG said on phone, all learnable online and coulda been parroted by a 2nd JG who went to police.
However we believe the JG who went to police is very likely the real JG as it’s been deduced that she must have had to verify her identity to BPD more than once and that they likely do independent verification on claimants.
We need the timing.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 11:45 am
465 h2u
why does date of post matter now? as long as it’s not really a year ago, then we know that it was intentionally mis-dated to mislead us. And now it’s gone.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 11:48 am
The JGMA who went to Boston PD is real. No question. I just wonder if it is necessarily true that the JG that called Lee is the same person.
If JGMA had an old twitter account that included personal information, and it was co-opted by someone who later contacted her making threats as “Lee’s follower,” wouldn’t the person making the threats to JGMA be able to impersonate her well enough in a call to Lee?
1. They would have enough personal information about her to identify themselves as that person on a call to Lee.
2. They would have the details about the threatening call, since they were the one that made it, including what JGMA would likely report to police.
If I don’t have all the details and there is more to it, fine, but from what I have read here, just because a JGMA says similar things to the Boston PD as Lee’s caller doesn’t necessarily make them the same person.
Considering we have been dealing with fake personalities for weeks I think better verification is necessary.
Comment by CausticConservative — 7/2/2011 @ 11:54 am
I’m skeptical of just about every single “fact” asserted by Stranahan or Preston… There has not been nearly enough verification to warrant many of the statements uttered by both.
Comment by h2u — 7/2/2011 @ 11:55 am
474 eman
the reasoning wanders from “Is Lew Hunter real?” to “why would she use Lew Hunter as reference?” to “it doesn’t matter what Lew Hunter says.”
1) Lew Hunter is real. It’s possible, but very unlikely that both Lee and Preston talked to a fakey Lew Hunter and Mrs. Lew Hunter.
2) To students, famous professors are the most prominent people they deal with on a regular basis. Just because you wouldn’t use a professor as a reference, doesn’t mean this woman in her early 20s wouldn’t. I certainly used professors as references all the time at that age. The professors liked me and their prominence added credibility for me.
3) Lew Hunter can confirm that there is a real JG and some factual and subjective info about JG. It doesn’t prove that the caller was the real JG. The caller could have been someone with knowledge of JG’s life pretending to be JG and also running the starchild account. But it’s more likely that she is just JG.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 11:57 am
I’m honestly just interested in cementing down as many facts as possible regarding the timing involved in this entire affair. In this particular instance, I’ve seen numerous assertions that the post is misdated but I’d really like to see the evidence verifying that.
Right now the only factual evidence I’ve seen is the date of the J-Lo photo. And all that can actually prove is that the post was *edited* sometime after April 2011. There are other clues that suggest the post was created with the back-date of June 30, 2010, but I’d like to see the facts.
What else do we have?
Comment by h2u — 7/2/2011 @ 11:59 am
h2u,
I have to run, but I saw that “Hover” as well. I thought it an interesting notation of some kind.
Gennette was/is claiming to be searching for the identities. It is still not clear if she was working with others. Some suggest RAW himself.
Could the people here be covering ground that someone else has aready covered?
Comment by cap'n john's nephew — 7/2/2011 @ 12:06 pm
“Yes,” I whisper, “I am a weineraholic.”
hahaha I think I peed my pants…so.funny.
lambchps
It’s scary and sad
Comment by Blackburnsghost — 7/2/2011 @ 12:11 pm
Just thinking out loud. I found it intriguing.
That is all.
Comment by cap'n john's nephew — 7/2/2011 @ 12:12 pm
Oh, and Blackburnsghost, I haven’t forgotten your questions to me. I havn’t been ignoring you.
Not sure of branches, but the connection would have to be long before.
Ok, I’m leaving for now… Really!
Comment by cap'n john's nephew — 7/2/2011 @ 12:16 pm
koam 477
1. I am not asking the question is LH real. I am saying I dont think the question is relevant. I have no reason to doubt he’s real.. however, some here have questioned whether he’s who we think he is. JP definitely questioned that according to Lee.
2. While I surely used professors as references for jobs, credibility in my field, applications to grad schools, I wouldn’t have offered one up to the police. I surely wouldn’t have used a professor who ran an out-of-state WORKSHOP. He wasnt her advisor.. or even someone she took many classes with. She stayed at his home while taking a seminar. Perhaps they are now best buds. Perhaps that would change my mind. The fact remains, I find it odd.
3. Agreed. LH did provide some facts and some subjective info about a woman who took his workshop. He can’t, however, confirm the link from his student to the JGMA who is starchild111 or who called Lee or who filed a BPD report. LH can’t prove anything of value.
Comment by eman — 7/2/2011 @ 12:17 pm
So now Lee is trolling everyone following this to prove a point? Great.
Comment by Noodles — 7/2/2011 @ 1:58 pm
The arguments are getting more ridiculous each hour.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 2:00 pm
326,27,28,29…I do not know why he has a problem with me. He wants a sacrificial lamb and figures that I will sit back and take it. Posting that he knows that I ” did this and that and he knows it” just makes him look stupid. Based on his history and him calling Greg Howard’s children ” F–k–le”during “Twittergate”proves that he has some issues.
Im just sitting back and watching him self destruct.
Comment by goatsred — 7/2/2011 @ 2:29 pm
==There are no iron-clad facts. There are only degrees of certainty==
Congrats Crispian– you just received the same sermon I got 24 hours ago. In fact (as you are acutely aware) a few of us have been discussing the same basic issue about proof and verification on this same thread for almost 36 hours now. Crazy!
As an aside, most everyone (I think) recognizes that good people can have different mental processes that guide their lives and thought patterns. Some us us are detail oriented–some are more oriented to the big picture. Some tend to be more trusting, some people even can be considered gullible– others are more leery by nature, some people are suspicious to a fault. Some people are convinced through linear logic–other folks are inspired by stream-of- consciousness creativity. Some people see humor almost everything–others have just had a more serious and sensitive side probably since birth. All of these traits have been exhibited at various times by various commenters on this blog. Great. Shows we’re human and are engaged in this story.
That said, what I just don’t get is this, though: As far as I can see from reviewing the comments nobody really is telling lam (or Lee or Temper) to change their minds about their theories or demanding they accept other storyline possibilities. Yet lam, for instance, seems focused, intent, dare we say obsessed, in trying to get other commenters (including daily, SarahW, you, me, Maybee) to accept his (Lee’s) version exclusively without respecting whatever verification any of us individually might feel we need in order to comfortably do so. Why? Even if lam is satisfied and does not himself feel any need for more background verification, why is he apparently so personally offended if others see loose ends they’d still like to tie down?
Bottom line–What is the end game? What if every single commenter here in unison said of Lee’s (not fully fleshed out in writing) Weinergate sock theory, “The Science is Settled!” Then what would happen next? Is there a next step? Does it involve light bulbs and energy credits?
Comment by elissa — 7/2/2011 @ 2:58 pm
I cant know if Lee’s theory is the right one, but it’s the most or only plausible one right now in my view.
Time will tell.
The contradiction between Lew H “She’s very liberal politically” and the JG who called Lee “I’m just into reality shows, I know nothing about politics” tells us they’re not coordinated/co-conspirators.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/2/2011 @ 3:13 pm
“Why?”
elissa – [Using my James Earl Jones voice] What are you trying to say, my dear?
I just figured we have new bunch of Obama voters commenting, which is a good thing, but that we have not dumbed down the content of comments far enough to where they can comprehend them.
Comment by daleyrocks — 7/2/2011 @ 3:28 pm
Why would some hoaxer use a real identity ( JG ) behind the twitter starchild , to later change it to Nikki reed?
Why would that hoaxer be prepared to release very specific information on JG ( Lew H connection ) ?
Was this planned by the hoaxer that someone would track back the starchild account to JG by first finding out the jenay name and the connection to JG?
When did the hoaxer plan to frame JG?
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/2/2011 @ 3:30 pm
487 elissa.
“Conjecture is over.”
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 3:40 pm
Elissa , someone could ask Lew H what JG looks like ,and ask the same to the police who saw JG MA and filed the report.
Comment by Temper Tantrum — 7/2/2011 @ 3:46 pm
487. elisia
I am not personally offended by others’ opinions. I am typically responding to other people who are challenging mine. I usually don’t comment on the comments advocating extreme due diligence. That’s OK by me. I do feel when everybody is doing it on this fourm, it starts to make it look a little kooky. But I don’t feel I have to advertise my point of view, or continually harp on the subject. And I have not accepted Lee’s conclusions as facts. But i do think he has a reasonable approach to distinguishing the sublime from the absurd.
Comment by lamchopsl — 7/2/2011 @ 4:06 pm
We need to refute questioned testimony with specific evidentiary facts.
That someone’s statements don’t fit the popular theory isn’t what makes them lies.
We also have to remember that we are getting a lot of testimony second-hand. Someone saying what someone else said or meant. This can be misleading.
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 4:41 pm
When Patterico was pushing on JR, the walls started shaking, ghosts flew out of the closets, and the Devil himself appeared. Everody ran to the rabbit hole, while Pat stayed with the source.
Comment by cap'n john's nephew — 7/2/2011 @ 4:58 pm
“The Science is Settled!” Then what would happen next? Is there a next step? Does it involve light bulbs and energy credits?
Oh how I love this comment. With my entire stash of incancesdents.
Comment by Blackburnsghost — 7/2/2011 @ 5:14 pm
“The Science is Settled” That’s hilarious.
First it was the Koch brothers circle of crazy fun and now we’ve got AGW. That’s two awesome loops in leftie craziness. Bulging briefs cause global warming AGW Anthony’s Global Warming. We might be on to something here as the conspiracy heads out for another lap.
Comment by Johnny 5 is alive — 7/2/2011 @ 5:31 pm
Comment by Blackburnsghost — 7/2/2011 @ 9:56 am
I took your lead and went over there and looked at all of those articles and my name being in all of them.It has just made me more aware of all of the defamation that Neal “Stranded Wind” is causing to be attached to my name I want to thank you for pointing this out to me. I have been staying away from the Commie Rag he spews his hate in because I have just experienced his lies and slander for two months now.
He is an evil organism.
Comment by goatsred — 7/2/2011 @ 6:08 pm
Do you think he’s Sourshoes’ brother?
Comment by koam @wittier — 7/2/2011 @ 6:19 pm